Home > Uncategorized > Here is a tip for the Hungarian police and Viktor Orbán

Here is a tip for the Hungarian police and Viktor Orbán

August 4, 2012

Since the Hungarian media didn’t report an important piece of news about kuruc.info I guess I have to write about it. Especially since it indirectly concerns the United States.

It was exactly a month ago that Viktor Orbán, prime minister of Hungary, answered a letter written by fifty U.S. congressmen expressing their concern over the growth of antisemitism in Hungary. They alluded to an especially notorious website, kuruc.info, that uses an American server, a fact that came in handy for Orbán, who wrote the following to the congressmen:

Your letter appeared just in time because I was on the verge of asking your assistance in a matter on which I failed to get satisfaction through international channels and through the [American] embassy…. 

Some of these anti-Semites call the Hungarian government and Viktor Orbán himself “hirelings of Jews,” and these forces “receive considerable support from the United States.” The Hungarian center of antisemitism is a website that operates on an American server. If that problem could get resolved the Hungarian forces of antisemitism would be considerably weakened. “I ask you to assist us in this matter because our request to close this site was rejected by the U.S. government.” 

As we have discussed many times, although the server might be in the United States the website is being  managed in Hungary. Even Viktor Orbán, although he seems to be completely Internet illiterate, should know that much. Laying the blame for Hungarian antisemitism on the Americans is truly disingenuous.

I might add here that the Hungarian police and prosecutors steadfastly maintain that they are helpless. They cannot do a thing about kuruc.info.

Well, ATV did something. Now it is up to the Hungarian prosecutors to move.

ATV functions very much like a public television station. They broadcast news often and in depth. They have excellent political programs that have half a million or more viewers. Olga Kálmán’s evening program Egyenes beszéd (Straight talk) is especially popular, and Újságíróklub (Journalists’ club) on Monday evenings is a must for anybody who wants to hear intelligent conversations by three excellent journalists on the topics of the previous week. Wednesday nights there is A tét (The stake) where commentators carry on lively debates on political topics. Lately ATV acquired two excellent television reporters who had been sacked from the state-run television station, MTV: Antónia Mészáros and Krisztina Bombera. Mészáros had to leave because she dared to ask a few questions from Viktor Orbán. Bombera used to report from New York to MTV but obviously her reporting on American news didn’t meet with the approval of the new management. Now she does the same for ATV.

In addition to all this ATV is moving into news gathering. ATV’s website offers good coverage of domestic and foreign news as well as economics, culture, and sports.

ATV, feeling just as frustrated as I am with the kuruc.info affair, decided to do a bit of research on its own. It all started with an announcement that appeared on the website of kuruc.info that from here on advertisers can get receipts on the basis of which companies can claim back the value added tax (VAT; in Hungarian ÁFA)  included in the price of the ads.

ATV’s reporters created a fictitious businessman, József Varjú, a photographer. “Varjú” back in May asked for the price of an ad for http://www.fenyiro.atw.hu. The correspondence took place via e-mail. Soon enough “Varjú” received an answer to his inquiry from “Tamás Bodóky,” an equally fictitious name. The real Bodóky is the reporter who first uncovered kuruc.info’s not quite legal advertising practices and who nowadays is running http://www.atlatszo.hu, a site devoted to uncovering corruption. “Bodóky” gave the e-mail address of his “co-worker” who handles matters connected to advertising.  On June 13, our “Varjú” received the following letter:

Dear József Varjú,

My name is Attila Nagy, the managing director of Unified Quality Kft. I learned that you are interested in placing a banner on kuruc.info. Here is a list of  steps to be taken. You will have to give all the important data about your business: name of the company, location, tax number, name of the director, etc. You should also give us your postal address where we will mail the signed contract and the receipt. Once we receive the amount of money either through the bank or the postal service we will place your ad on the kuruc.info website within twenty-four hours. This, in your case, will be 82,550 forints.

“Varjú” at that point specified that he would like to place the ad for two weeks only and the price he discussed with “Bodóky” was 30,000 forints. Attila Nagy answered that “I will be the one to send you the receipt; the rest is the boys’ business.” By June 29, the deal was sealed. Nagy indicated that “yes, the money arrived and I passed on the information. I trust that the ad is already on the website.”

The ad “József Varjú” placed on kuruc.info

Attila Nagy was as good as his word. On the very same day the ad of our fictitious József Varjú was on kuruc.info’s website and remained there for the specified two weeks.

So, the money arrived by bank transfer to Nagy on June 29 and on the very same day the ad appeared on kuruc.info’s website. The dates here are important in establishing that kuruc.info has a financial presence in Hungary. It would take at least four working days for an international bank transfer to be processed in the United States. So, surely, the financial transaction took place within the country.

Now only a bit of research was needed on Attila Nagy, who indeed is a real businessman and not a fictitious character. His business, Unified Quality Kft., is situated in Jászapáti and is engaged in home security system installations. On the side, Nagy organizes larger events and lately he also runs an advertising agency. Nagy also works for MÁV FKG,  a company that takes care of trunk lines. On Facebook Nagy indicates that he is involved with Jobbik and that his chief interest is kuruc.info. According to iwiw, a Hungarian social media outlet, Attila Nagy is a member of the Jászapáti’ section of Jobbik.

Well, if the Hungarian authorities are at all serious about kuruc.info, here is their opportunity. They can start with Attila Nagy, who surely knows a great deal about kuruc.info and the “boys.” He could be called in as a witness; as such he is supposed to reveal any information he has and he must also be truthful.

But how can we expect any move from the police when even the Hungarian media ignore ATV’s discovery of Attila Nagy and his connection to kuruc.info’s boys? I don’t think that the August slump is any excuse.

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  1. nyaripal
    August 4, 2012 at 5:07 pm | #1

    The real question is not how they could shut down kuruc,info (they could do do it very easily), it’s WHY they don’t act.

    Shutting it down would be a huge feather in Orbán’s cap internationally and pricesless PR for him and Fidesz. So there must be a very good reason for keeping it online.

    But what is that reason? Determine that and we begin to understand what really makes Orbán and the top levels of Fidesz tick.

  2. petofi
    August 4, 2012 at 5:10 pm | #2

    This is good work. Now, the info should be dispersed among those print media types who’ve been doing investigative reporting during Orban’s tenure.
    The only way to get exposure is for the different legit papers and mags to work on this. Then, let’s see if the right wing media can ignore pointed questions of why they haven’t picked up the stories.

  3. petofi
    August 4, 2012 at 5:19 pm | #3

    nyaripal :
    The real question is not how they could shut down kuruc,info (they could do do it very easily), it’s WHY they don’t act.
    Shutting it down would be a huge feather in Orbán’s cap internationally and pricesless PR for him and Fidesz. So there must be a very good reason for keeping it online.
    But what is that reason? Determine that and we begin to understand what really makes Orbán and the top levels of Fidesz tick.

    Tsk, tsk. Where have you been for the last 12 months?
    Orban and Fidesz is the most duplicitous government in modern times. Jobbik/Kuruc is an arm of the Fidesz right wing. No surprise, is it?
    Fidesz’s appeal is to mine that specifically Hungarian motherlode mixture
    of narcissism, nationalism and viral anti-semitism that has been a mainstay of
    the average Hungarian mindset for over 125 years. Of course, in this lurid
    endeavor they have the tacit approval of mother Catholic church. As toxic
    a mixture of components as one can imagine.

  4. Karl Pfeifer
    August 5, 2012 at 2:35 am | #4

    @Nyaripal@ Now it is a bit late to do it for reasons of PR. There are other things Orbán & Co. could also do: stop some people to spread racist and anti-Semitic incitement on Magyar Hirlap and Echo TV, delete Albert Wass and József Nyirö from syllabus, stop the cult of Ottokár Prohászka.

    János Kis, one of the leaders of liberal SZDSZ wrote in “Szólásszabadság és náci beszéd”:
    “Én olyan tisztázást javaslok, mely egyértelmüvé tenné: a szélsöjobboldali radikalizmus szóbeli megnyilvánulásai ellen nem az állam büntetö hatalmát, hanem a politikai közösség erkölcsi erejét kell felvonultatni” Népszabadság 1996 március 30
    A strange idea that the Hungarian society had after 40 years communism “moral strength” to do away with what did not disappear during the time of those 40 years government “antifascism”.
    So Nyripal, let me ask you a question if anti-Semitism is just a method to deflect attention from the ills of capitalism, why is that not used by main stream politicians and media in the USA, UK, France, Germany and during the last ten years also in Austria? You may say they are rich countries. But why is it not used in Warsaw, Prague and Bratislava?

    We had in Austria an obnoxious neo-Nazi website. When Austrians complained about it, the answer was: The server is in the USA, we can’t do a thing about that.
    But then questions were asked in parliament and the media started to report on it also electronic state owned media.
    A few months ago early in the morning the police came with search warrants and now a few men with previous convictions are waiting for court procedure in prison.

    In countries where the Holocaust took place one can’t rely only on the “moral strength” of society. It is still necessary to use the laws against racist and anti-Semitic incitement. So if such laws are in vigor in France why not in Hungary?
    And why are the laws existing in Hungary not applied when it comes to incitement?

  5. petofi
    August 5, 2012 at 3:19 am | #5

    @Karl

    Quite right. Pertinent questions.
    Csapary lives in Budapest for 15 years and no one pretends to know? Gimme a break.
    It’s useful to note so called liberal, left-leaning parties had been in power too and did
    nothing. So, there are two suppositions that come to light: a) the left is not much
    more proactive than the right in matters of anti-semitism; b) the police are a stronger
    surreptitious power in Hungary than in most other democracies. It’s also interesting to
    speculate where the left media was on the question of Csapary for the last 15 years as well.
    It would be interesting to know whether the Wiesenthal center had informed Hungary during MSZP’s 8 years about Csapary’s presence in Budapest….

  6. LwiiH
    August 5, 2012 at 3:32 am | #6

    This is a clear case of hate speech which isn’t tolerated in the US. It’s not clear to me that the servers are in the US as their location is hidden behind a proxy service (run by a GoDaddy subsidiary in Texas) and a CDN (content distribution network) in San Fran. There is nothing preventing the Hungarian government from hiring a US lawyer, filing a complaint and thus triggering an investigation starting at the proxy provider and the CDN. Why has it not happened? No idea! But if it was important enough something would be done.

    Does anyone know if the ADL (Anti-Defamation League ) is working on this?

  7. Sackhoes Contributor
    August 5, 2012 at 3:52 am | #7

    Shutting down the kuruc servers in the US is not the answer. First, it’s technically unfeasible, since most likely it is just one of thousands of user content applications running on a server If you kill it on one server, they’ll just port it to another one.Cancelling the domain name may be a more effective solution, but still only temporary, merely an annoyance.

    But the real culprit of anti-semitism and hate speech is not the hardware or software. It’s the writers and editors and the owners of kuruc business If someone makes hatefull death threats against you using the telephone, you don’t shut down the phone company, you arrest the person making the calls. Ms. Balogh is on the right track. Now let’s see if the Hungarian authorities will have the cojones to do something.

  8. Karl Pfeifer
    August 5, 2012 at 6:37 am | #8

    Petofi, the problem is deeper than party politics. But once the elite has understood that anti-Semitism is not appreciated by world opinion things could change. Fidesz key members still believe they can dance at the same time at two marriage parties. They want to take out the wind of the Jobbik sail, by letting people like Bayer, Biró and Bogár apply to anti-Semitic resentments. Therefore they let also Kövér behave like a bull in the china shop and propagate a pro-Arrow-cross politician.
    At the same time they had a state secretary Kovács who bragged about his Jewish wife, and they have token Jews like Ágnes Hankiss. Fidesz also likes to portray itself as a victim of rightwing anti-Semitism and of unfounded accusations of the left to tolerate anti-Semitism.

  9. August 5, 2012 at 6:53 am | #9

    Today’s article and yesterdays show us two of the probable ‘distribution of cash’ routes used in Hungary.
    In yesterday’s article reference was made to one “Előd Novák* was a “local assistant” of Szegedi in Brussels. The article says that he is a member of the Hungarian parliament and deputy chairman of Jobbik.
    The article also says that in five months Novák received €3,500 as a salary form the European Parliament. Why and what for. Well Szegedi got a Euro MPs job which must have been sanctioned by Vona (and perhaps by someone else) so the Bosses must get their share . So of the €3,500 perhaps Novak pockets €900 to €1,000 and the remainder is passed upwards to the Boss and the ‘Boss of Bosses.

    In today’s article we see another cash feed through one Attila Nagy who takes a little of the cash, gives the ‘boys` a few thousand. The rest flows upwards to the Boss and of course the ‘Boss of Bosses’.

    Who is the ‘Boss of Bosses’ you ask? Well who could shut Jobbik down (and legally should already have done so)? Who can give all the orders (and when I say all I mean ALL). Orban Viktor of course!

    How could he wipe out Jobbik that would be un democratic. He could use the Treaty of Paris 1947! It is a good read and very informative.

    So apart from the money (which he likes) the ‘Boss of Bosses’ finds both Jobbik and kuruc.info useful. He uses Jobbik to scare the E.U. and kuruc.info as a stick which he can use to beat the U.S.A.

  10. petofi
    August 5, 2012 at 7:26 am | #10

    Karl Pfeifer,

    The problem is that there is all too much posing…a heard of poseurs led by Orban.
    Moreover, Orban’s great success is that he’s gotten his people to believe that they
    are ‘unique’, ‘select’, and far superior to other peoples hence any attempt at criticism
    is an attempt to hold Hungary’s successful march forward. Does this not sound a
    little like early nazi Germany? Yes, thankfully, Hungary has no such power. But the point
    is that Orban has appealed to Hungarian narcissism which is hard to counter. After all,
    believing that you’ve been victimized makes you liable to be manipulated and your hate
    directed at your ‘oppressors’. This has been Orban’s great (?) discovery–and only discovery–with respect to Hungarian politics. That the people are willing to stand by and watch the economic ruin of the country to maintain their illusions.

    And if your subject to illusions how can you ever determine who the rightful political leaders might be, especially when both major political parties have proven the prevailing political culture of “steal as much and as often as possible”?

    The success of the character assassination of Gyurcsany is a case in point. Any true
    criminal would have left the stage a long time ago and taken his ill-gotten gains to London
    as the Russian oligarchs do. No, I believe, interestingly enough, that Gyurcsany was
    only successfully done away with by the betrayal of members of his own party who, I surmise, were not happy that (somehow) Gyurcsany stood in the way of their full-throttle
    attempts at fraud.

    What can be worse for a Hungarian politician than to be in power and not to be able to
    thieve to his heart’s content?

  11. August 5, 2012 at 8:17 am | #11

    Petofi you wrote ** “What can be worse for a Hungarian politician than to be in power and not to be able to thieve to his heart’s content?” **.

    To my mind this is a horrendous condemnation on the Hungarian politicians and on Hungarian population who choose them

  12. szabadsag mindig
    August 5, 2012 at 9:00 am | #12

    petofi August 5, 2012 at 7:26 am | #10 Quote

    Karl Pfeifer,

    The problem is that there is all too much posing…a heard of poseurs led by Orban.
    Moreover, Orban’s great success is that he’s gotten his people to believe that they
    are ‘unique’, ‘select’, and far superior to other peoples hence any attempt at criticism

    Orban does a good job in the empowering trick. His followers feel empowered to ubermensch level. They believe in their own greatness, They will gradually lose any feeling of guilt if the Orban machine has to oppress the opposition to Orban.

    —————————————————————————————-

    The only remedy to defeat this demagogue, is the flashmob demonstration. Occupy their space, especially the home address of this budding political criminals.

    I hope that thousands will show up at the doorsteps of the homes built from stolen funds.

    The careful targeting of these Fidesz and also Jobbik loudmouths has to be complemented with spirited Public Relationship messages in noble non-violence.

  13. August 5, 2012 at 9:36 am | #13

    @szabadsag mInding: “The only remedy to defeat this demagogue, is the flashmob demonstration. Occupy their space, especially the home address of this budding political criminals.” Absolutely not. Violence or intimation is not the answer. I find it very disturbing to suggest emoting strategies that would involve the intimidation of any politicians families. The liberal mindid of Hungary are not members of the maffia or the 1917 revolution. If they want to protest, there are plenty of place to do that in public places snd not I front of someone’s family home.

  14. LwiiH
    August 5, 2012 at 3:49 pm | #14

    Sackhoes Contributor :
    Shutting down the kuruc servers in the US is not the answer. First, it’s technically unfeasible, since most likely it is just one of thousands of user content applications running on a server

    My first off the cuff views that I shared was that going after the servers wasn’t really going to slow them down. After burning a few cycles in a focused deep dive on how the site is constructed I came to realize that moving this site is much more complex then I first imagined. Kuruc has hidden the location of their servers. They’ve hidden them behind both a CDN and the proxy provider. Both of these organizations have published terms of use conditions that kuruc is in violation of. Point is, I don’t have a clue where the actual servers are sitting. For all we know they might be safely sitting in Budapest! Secondly these services have an obligation to turn off the pipes.

    Cancelling the domain name may be a more effective solution, but still only temporary, merely an annoyance.

    My experience with web branding suggests that cancelling the domain would be way more than a temporary annoyance. It takes a long time to brand and it takes a fair bit of time to rebrand. When a website I was involved with was threatened with trademark violation I can say that the fear wasn’t in the porting effort (that was trivial), it was in the loss of the branding. Fortunately our UK lawyer was able to tell the large American company to sod off which they did. The last large website rebranding I witnessed took more than 2 years and that wasn’t done under very open circumstances.

    ICANN has put in a number of mechanisms to protect free speech and prevent oppression. Unfortunately these mechanisms also make it harder to take down a site being used to support hate speech. That said, domain name seizure does happen but that involves warrants and stuff.

    But the real culprit of anti-semitism and hate speech is not the hardware or software. It’s the writers and editors and the owners of kuruc business If someone makes hatefull death threats against you using the telephone, you don’t shut down the phone company, you arrest the person making the calls. Ms. Balogh is on the right track. Now let’s see if the Hungarian authorities will have the cojones to do something.

    Agreed that it’s the authors of the site that need to be dealt with. The government also has to do more to educate against this type of behaviour to tackle it at the source. So instead of shoving somebodies idea of religion down my child’s throat, maybe it would be nice from them to focus on religious and racial tolerance (oh I forgot, religious groups aren’t really known for tolerance are they). But back to the point, the internet is not a phone and to this end there are more things that can be done that are far more disruptive then you might believe at first glance. If I, as an individual, using some fairly unsophisticated tooling and without the aid of warrants and other legal instruments, can reverse engineer (albiet a small portion) of their website in an hour or so,….. need I say more?

    Is OV now playing Turkey with this issue as well hoping it will go away so he doesn’t have to do anything? How would it look for him to have to act against Hungarians while under pressure from foreigners….

  15. LwiiH
    August 5, 2012 at 3:59 pm | #15

    grrr, I should have said the large porting effort *was* done under very open circumstances.

  16. nyaripal
    August 5, 2012 at 3:59 pm | #16

    A little off topic – but talking of the police, a few years ago we hardly saw them in Debrecen. Nowadays they are everywhere, there even seems to be two types of ‘police’, the proper ones and some sort of semi-police who have similar uniforms but don’t (as far as I can tell) carry guns. The other day, I even saw a platoon (?) of soldiers being instructed in something in the middle of town.

    And today I saw a couple of homeless guys sleeping in the local park being questioned by a policeman. At first I thought he was just checking their IDs, but later I saw him writing out something- like traffic cops do when they’re giving you a ticket. So I can only assume the new Fidesz-Jobbik regime has gone totally bonkers and has started fining people for being too poor to have a home.

    Or perhaps we’ve just reached the state where Debrecen (hardly the crime capital of the world) has got so many coppers that they don’t know what to do with their time?

  17. nyaripal
    August 5, 2012 at 4:07 pm | #17

    “Tsk, tsk. Where have you been for the last 12 months?”

    On here. And, for a significant time, in Hungary. And for the previous 12 months, and the ones before that…

    Hence my question. I know what Orbán is like, but dodging an issue as big and bad as this when he doesn’t have to, when it’s doing him a lot of damage, and when he doesn’t gain anything from it, leaves my question still unanswered – why?

    There’s got to be more to this than just keeping the Fidesz right-wing happy with a luke-warm attitude towards anti-Semitism. It’s doing him too much damage internationally, and giving too much to Jobbik, to make the relatively small plus he gets from this worthwhile.

    Either he’s working to an agenda we still don’t fully understand, or my use of the term ‘Fidesz-Jobbik’ is closer to the truth than even I realised.

  18. szabadsag mindig
    August 5, 2012 at 4:12 pm | #18

    some1, you wrote that “I find it very disturbing to suggest emoting strategies that would involve the intimidation of any politicians families.”

    This people deserve that their private sphere will be invaded.

    A legend in his time, was the Brooklyn resident, John Ranz. His “Generation After” picketed extremist shops, the residences of inciters. The actions were resounding successes. All operators agreed to cease their incitement after a few day, when it became obvious to the neighborhood, what they were.

    http://www.timesledger.com/stories/2008/15/20080410-archive180.html

    I think it would work in Hungary too. Most Hungarian people are decent and will not tolerate extremist neighbors.

  19. August 5, 2012 at 4:37 pm | #19

    @szabadsag in mind, I think we are not at the point when results justify the means. I am sorry but I cannot agree with the harassment of whole families. It is the job of the police or/and the government to intervene, and of the government does not set up proper boundaries than S fortunate as it is, but anything goes. By using illegal means to intimidate those who the current government fails to keep in line, only plays into the hands of those who you try to take actions against.

  20. petofi
    August 5, 2012 at 5:42 pm | #20

    @nyaripal

    “…when it’s doing him (Orban) a lot of damage…”

    How ‘western’ of you! What damage? This stuff works with the local hop-paloi, especially in the countryside. That’s why the constant reports of Orban speaking ‘to his constituency’ out of one side of his mouth…and to the EU from the other. No, to the secret delight of many–might I say the majority?–this stuff works in this god-forsaken country.

    Why it works and how it can be changed should be working the minds of fellow blog members.

  21. szabadsag mindig
  22. nyaripal
    August 5, 2012 at 7:33 pm | #22

    Petofi – I might equally well say “how Hungarian of you”.

    As should be clear from my post, I was referring to the damage he is doing to his, and Hungary’s, international reputation, not how his speeches play to the ignorant domestic audience.

    I am well aware that Orbán doesn’t care about this, and he is right not to, as mostly nothing he does actually makes any real difference to how the outside world deals with Hungary (e.g. the EU). But this is different – anti-Semitism is one step too far, one step that Europe and the US will not be able to turn a blind eye to. And once the Israeli propaganda machine gets going, Orbán will no longer be a joke leader of a minor country, barely troubling anyone, he will become a modern-day Hitler, a dangerous, anti-Jewish madman A madman the rest of the world will have to do something about.

    As I said, this is a very dangerous game he is playing. he is risking a hell of a lot on this. Does he simply not understand, or is the result of this strategy worth the risk?

    We simply don’t know. And not to understand such a basic driver of someone who has been in total power for over 2 years, puts us in a very weak position.

    Which is what I was saying in my original post.

  23. petofi
    August 6, 2012 at 12:50 am | #23

    Nyaripal– don’t misunderstand: “how western of you” is a compliment.

    And I agree: it’s precisely that Orban’s machinations make no sense in regard to either
    the welfare of the country, or the efficacy of his politics…that I have posited (in the past)
    that Orban’s actions could best be understood as that of a Russian mole. The ramifications
    of that possibility is scarier than anything because that introduces the idea of the sacrifice of a country for the geopolitical gains of a super power…

  24. Dubious
    August 6, 2012 at 1:21 am | #24

    Orbán neither as a secret strategy, nor is a secret mole. He is simply a small-minded, domestically-focused tin-pot dictator who does everything in his power to avoid looking ahead, trusting in his ability to sidestep whatever mess may arise at the time it comes.

    Maybe he even wants a bit more international criticism (and could you arrange for better criticism than from Jewish media?) to focus people’s minds on what is important such as Hungary not being a colony – rather than the small issues such as no-one having jobs, the entire economy tanking and entire sectors of government in disarray due to half-hearted and knee-jerk forays into the areas by Fidesz Inc.

    I agree Paul, it’s a very dangerous game, but Fidesz have completely misjudged international media and international opinion since their first day in office.

  25. Karl Pfeifer
    August 6, 2012 at 2:05 am | #25

    “Dubious” I would not call “Economist” and “Die Welt” (just two examples) Jewish media.
    And not only media is critical. The fact that Orbán is not invited to meet Obama, Cameron or Hollande does on the surface not worry him and his friends. But before election 2014 he’ll try everything to be invited. Semjén will arrange for a private audience at the Vatican but that will be all.

  26. Dubious
    August 6, 2012 at 2:26 am | #26

    Karl, I completely agree. The Jewish media remark was in response to Paul’s “Israeli propaganda machine” comment above.

  27. Karl Pfeifer
    August 6, 2012 at 8:52 am | #27

    Dubious: There is no “Israeli propaganda machine” or if there is one, it is absolutely inefficient. Since this Website is concerned about Hungary I am not going to elaborate.
    And as far as Hungary is concerned Israel is very careful. After all Likud and Fidesz are ideologically not far from each other.
    As far as Austrian Media is concerned, except extreme right wing journalists, there is no sympathy for Orbán & Co.

  28. Dubious
    August 6, 2012 at 2:59 pm | #28

    Karl, again I completely agree and I don’t think I’ve said anything to the contrary.

  29. August 8, 2012 at 10:01 am | #29

    Petrovich: “What can be worse for a Hungarian politician than to be in power and not to be able to
    thieve to his heart’s content?”

    So that is why you are so upset now, that you are not in power?

  30. wolfi
    August 8, 2012 at 11:00 am | #30

    @Louis:

    It must be nice to be an idiot – and a Troll:
    http://www.alternet.org/media/why-online-comments-are-so-toxic

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