Hungarian far-right party claims that Jews are a threat to national security

By now major papers all over the world have carried the story of a far-right Hungarian member of parliament, Márton Gyöngyösi, who called for a list of Jewish members of the government and parliament because in his opinion they may pose a threat to Hungary’s national security. The condensed stories are often inaccurate and/or they don’t give the background necessary to understand the exchange in the Hungarian parliament that rightly received the condemnation of the whole democratic world.

BBC’s short article describes Jobbik, the party to which Márton Gyöngyösi belongs, as a nationalistic party. Sure, Jobbik is nationalistic all right, but it is also a racist, anti-Semitic party. In brief, it can be called a neo-Nazi party. Jobbik received 16.67% of the votes at the 2010 elections and 44 seats in the 386-seat parliament. Since then, their support has decreased; in the most recent poll their popularity stood at 8% among eligible voters.

Jobbik might have lost some support in the last two and a half years but their anti-Semitic propaganda has had its intended results. Anti-Semitism in Hungary has been on the rise. According to a recent study, Hungary is one of the most anti-Semitic countries in Europe.

Yesterday’s encounter between Gyöngyösi and Undersecretary of Foreign Affairs Zsolt Németh was not entirely unexpected. After all, it was only about a week ago that Jobbik organized a demonstration in front of the Israeli Embassy in Budapest where the leader of the party, Gábor Vona, called on the Hungarian government to find out whether there are Israeli citizens among the members of the government and parliament. Vona also demanded an account of the “presence of Israeli capital in Hungary.”

Márton Gyöngyösi’s inquiries addressed to the undersecretary shouldn’t have come as a surprise either. Gyöngyösi is “the foreign policy expert” of Jobbik. Moreover, his sympathies toward the Palestinians, Iranians, and Arabs in general are well known. It was sometime in February that Gyöngyösi gave an interview to the British weekly, Jewish Chronicle. In that interview among other things he questioned whether 400,000 Hungarian Jews were really killed or deported from Hungary to Nazi death camps during World War II. “It has become a fantastic business to jiggle around the numbers,” he told the newspaper.

Gyöngyösi is not a run-of-the-mill Jobbik member. He is the son of a former commercial attaché who spent his childhood in Egypt, Iraq, Afghanistan, and India and graduated from Trinity College in Dublin. He also spent a year at the Friedrich Alexander Universität in Nuremberg. One can read more about Gyöngyösi in my post “Jobbik’s foreign policy expert: Márton Gyöngyösi.”

In connection with this affair there are several important points to make. One is that every time a Jobbik MP plans an anti-Semitic outburst in the House the party picks a time when the presiding speaker is Jobbik deputy-speaker Zoltán Balczó. The last time that happened was in April when a Jobbik MP rose to “commemorate” the non-existent ritual murder of a young girl in the village of Tiszaeszlár 130 years ago. Details about this particular incident can be found in my post entitled “Two scandalous events in the Hungarian parliament.”

I would like to quote the exchange as fully as possible because some of the descriptions I found in English-language versions of the story were barely comprehensible.

There is a time put aside in the Hungarian parliament for “immediate questions.” When an MP plans to ask a question he first has to submit his question in writing. Normally the question is addressed to the minister in charge, but the minister can delegate someone else if the MP agrees. Foreign Minister Martonyi delegated Undersecretary Zsolt Németh. These exchanges are by house rules very short. A few minutes.

In his prepared statement Gyöngyösi accused the Hungarian foreign ministry of bias toward Israel. Németh answered that the Hungarian government does not take sides but “represents the interests of both people.” He added that 200,000 Hungarian-speaking people live in Israel and about the same number of “our Jewish compatriots live in Hungary.” Moreover, a large number of people from Palestine live in the country. In fact, the largest Palestinian colony in Central Europe can be found in Hungary.

At this point Gyöngyösi had a minute or so to reply. His answer was impromptu:  “Naturally I also know how many Hungarian compatriots of ours [then corrects] how many people of Hungarian origin live in Israel and how many Israeli Jewish compatriots of ours live in Hungary. But I believe that the time has come, especially during such conflict, to consider making a list of Jews living in the country, especially those who are in the Hungarian Parliament and the Hungarian government, who, indeed, post a national security risk to Hungary.”

I watched Zsolt Németh’s face while Gyöngyösi was speaking; when he got to the point of making a list, Németh slightly raised his eyebrows. His answer was woefully inadequate. “Forgive me, but I cannot be a supporter of such research. I don’t think that the number of persons of Jewish origin in the Hungarian government is particularly related to the serious conflict that is taking place in the Middle East.” In the original: “Ne haragudjon, de ennek a kutatásnak nem tudok a támogatója lenni, úgy gondolom, hogy az, hogy hány zsidó származású személy van a magyar kormányban, az nem nagyon kapcsolódik ahhoz, hogy milyen súlyos konfliktus zajlik a Közel-Keleten.”  The Jobbik presiding speaker said nothing. A couple of times he indicated that the speakers had used more than their allotted time, but that was all.

Although the chamber seemed to be fairly full, there was no noisy outcry after Gyöngyösi’s “immediate question.” The House moved on to other business.

By next morning around 9:00 a.m. the government spokesman, András Giró-Szász , came out with a communiqué that Euroactiv described as terse. “The government strictly rejects extremist, racist, anti-Semitic voices of any kind and does everything to suppress such voices. The government at the same time makes it clear that it defends all citizens of the country from such insults.”

Well there is a little problem with this “terse” communiqué. It is a statement that is put away in some desk drawer in the office of communication to be pulled out every time there is an anti-Semitic incident. It doesn’t seem to matter whether the cause is simple vandalism in a Jewish cemetery, some insulting words directed against the Chief Rabbi, or in this case the horrendous suggestion of making lists of Hungarian Jews. Sharp-eyed journalists and bloggers dug up earlier government statements on anti-Semitism and these statements are practically copied from each other without any alteration. There is an amusing comparison of three recent government statements on anti-Semitisim in K. Funky’s blog. Definitely worth reading.

Finally, a few words about Zoltán Balczó’s chairing of the meeting and not interfering. A reporter managed to interview him this afternoon and asked him point blank whether he made a mistake when he didn’t stop Gyöngyösi. Balczó categorically denied any culpability. He claimed that the speaker of the house according to the house rules has no such authority in a case like that. The speaker has the right to interfere only “if the member of parliament uses insulting or indecent language,” and in his opinion there were no such expressions in Gyöngyösi’s speech. But Balczó added that Gyöngyösi made a mistake because “he gave the false impression that Jobbik wanted to make a list of members of parliament of the Mosaic religion or of Jewish origin.” Well, didn’t they?

By mid-morning Gyöngyösi himself decided to comment on the events of last night. He corrected himself. He was actually talking only about a list of those members of parliament who are also Israeli citizens. Just like Gábor Vona demanded in his speech in front of the Israeli embassy. He wouldn’t want a list of all Jews in Hungary. Előd Novák (Jobbik) who was sitting right behind Zsolt Németh seemed to be in full agreement with Gyöngyösi judging from his expression, and he shook his head in disbelief while listening to Németh’s claims of impartiality. But now he tried to defend his friend: “Marci only misspoke. He could be misunderstood.”

Today four members of parliament wore yellow stars in protest. The MSZP István Ujhelyi who happened to be the presiding speaker this morning and three DK members of parliament who still sit among the independents: Ágnes Vadai, István Kolber, and László Varju.

In the afternoon László Kövér also spoke up. His answer to everything is more restrictive house rules. However, knowing László Kövér’s almost pathological hatred of the socialists, it is most likely that he would use the more stringent house rules not so much against Jobbik whose ideas are not far from his own but against the MSZP members of parliament.

The only Fidesz politician who used strong language against Gyöngyösi was Antal Rogán. He rightly pointed out that Gyöngyösi’s revised version was no better than his original speech. It was refreshing to listen to him.

74 comments

  1. Paul :
    Marton makes some good points, but the crucial one to my mind, and the one we’ve all missed until now, is about the Roma. As Marton says, the very things we fear might happen to the Jews, are already happening to the Roma.
    But if a Jobbik MP had stood up and made a similar speech about Gypsies, would there have been anything like this fuss?
    It should be remembered that the Roma suffered even worse than the Jews in the holocaust. But, whereas the Jewish situation these days has vastly improved, the Roma are still stuck at the bottom of the pile as everybody’s scapegoats and whipping boys.

    Paul,
    You have arrived at the non-sequitur level of full idiocy with the statement, “…Roma have suffered EVEN MORE THAN THE JEWS..” Really? It’s hardly worth picking up the argument with such sheer nonsense. Please consider the ‘meaning’ of words, rather than just plunking them out there…

    As for the Roma being ‘stuck as scapegoats’…your liberal-minded, self-righteousness is a little stomach-turning. Have you personally dealt with any Roma? Real, live, breathing Roma? Or has your theoretically evolved naval gazing just brought you to some knee-jerk,
    liberal statments?

    I have met some wonderfully talented, hard-working Roma deserving of assistance and a ‘hand-up’. Sad to say, most Roma think of any sort of assistance as the portal to exploitation; and many a good housing development has gone to premature deterioration
    because of Roma neglect. By the way, you might ask yourself this question: whether you see a Roma town in Slovakia, Hungary or Macedonia…they’re equally broken-down, garbage dumps….so, do all three countries neglect their Roma equally, or, does the truth lie elsewhere?

    The gassing of jews during the nazi period was preceded by a de-humanization process unseen in human history. No culture or people have ever suffered such.

    (And let’s hope it’s never repeated in the future, either.)

  2. Petofi1 :

    Paul :
    Marton makes some good points, but the crucial one to my mind, and the one we’ve all missed until now, is about the Roma. As Marton says, the very things we fear might happen to the Jews, are already happening to the Roma.
    But if a Jobbik MP had stood up and made a similar speech about Gypsies, would there have been anything like this fuss?
    It should be remembered that the Roma suffered even worse than the Jews in the holocaust. But, whereas the Jewish situation these days has vastly improved, the Roma are still stuck at the bottom of the pile as everybody’s scapegoats and whipping boys.

    Paul,
    You have arrived at the non-sequitur level of full idiocy with the statement, “…Roma have suffered EVEN MORE THAN THE JEWS..” Really? It’s hardly worth picking up the argument with such sheer nonsense. Please consider the ‘meaning’ of words, rather than just plunking them out there…
    As for the Roma being ‘stuck as scapegoats’…your liberal-minded, self-righteousness is a little stomach-turning. Have you personally dealt with any Roma? Real, live, breathing Roma? Or has your theoretically evolved naval gazing just brought you to some knee-jerk,
    liberal statments?
    I have met some wonderfully talented, hard-working Roma deserving of assistance and a ‘hand-up’. Sad to say, most Roma think of any sort of assistance as the portal to exploitation; and many a good housing development has gone to premature deterioration
    because of Roma neglect. By the way, you might ask yourself this question: whether you see a Roma town in Slovakia, Hungary or Macedonia…they’re equally broken-down, garbage dumps….so, do all three countries neglect their Roma equally, or, does the truth lie elsewhere?
    The gassing of jews during the nazi period was preceded by a de-humanization process unseen in human history. No culture or people have ever suffered such.
    (And let’s hope it’s never repeated in the future, either.)

    Given Paul’s history here I do not see why you need to attack him so viscously. He was wrong, that ‘s been clarified, no need to kick a dead horse. And let me add, your style of “discourse” is completely stomach-turning.

  3. Orban just created a new foundation for propaganda abroad, called “Friends of Hungary”.

    Initial public money: 3.4 billion HUF + yearly additions.

    http://index.hu/belfold/2012/11/28/a_kormany_letrehozza_a_friends_of_hungary_alapitvanyt/

    Can someone add together all the funds Orban & Fidesz spend on domestic & foreign propaganda?

    Huge cutbacks in education and healthcare, but significant new monies for propaganda,

    presented to you by Victor Potemkin.

  4. Pete H. :

    Petofi1 :

    Paul :
    Marton makes some good points, but the crucial one to my mind, and the one we’ve all missed until now, is about the Roma. As Marton says, the very things we fear might happen to the Jews, are already happening to the Roma.
    But if a Jobbik MP had stood up and made a similar speech about Gypsies, would there have been anything like this fuss?
    It should be remembered that the Roma suffered even worse than the Jews in the holocaust. But, whereas the Jewish situation these days has vastly improved, the Roma are still stuck at the bottom of the pile as everybody’s scapegoats and whipping boys.

    Paul,
    You have arrived at the non-sequitur level of full idiocy with the statement, “…Roma have suffered EVEN MORE THAN THE JEWS..” Really? It’s hardly worth picking up the argument with such sheer nonsense. Please consider the ‘meaning’ of words, rather than just plunking them out there…
    As for the Roma being ‘stuck as scapegoats’…your liberal-minded, self-righteousness is a little stomach-turning. Have you personally dealt with any Roma? Real, live, breathing Roma? Or has your theoretically evolved naval gazing just brought you to some knee-jerk,
    liberal statments?
    I have met some wonderfully talented, hard-working Roma deserving of assistance and a ‘hand-up’. Sad to say, most Roma think of any sort of assistance as the portal to exploitation; and many a good housing development has gone to premature deterioration
    because of Roma neglect. By the way, you might ask yourself this question: whether you see a Roma town in Slovakia, Hungary or Macedonia…they’re equally broken-down, garbage dumps….so, do all three countries neglect their Roma equally, or, does the truth lie elsewhere?
    The gassing of jews during the nazi period was preceded by a de-humanization process unseen in human history. No culture or people have ever suffered such.
    (And let’s hope it’s never repeated in the future, either.)

    Given Paul’s history here I do not see why you need to attack him so viscously. He was wrong, that ‘s been clarified, no need to kick a dead horse. And let me add, your style of “discourse” is completely stomach-turning.

    I haven’t read all the answers so I didn’t see where Paul had been ‘corrected’.
    I do confess to being ‘pungent’ in my comments…

  5. The bright point in the mess is that Hungarians demonstrate with the Jews in growing numbers against the rossz jobbik.

    Let the Istan Ujhelyis counter the crazy incitement of the Vonas, Morvais, Gyongyosis loudly.

    PS Morvai is 100% Jewish….Even Gyongyosi Marton may be Jewish.

  6. FOR THE EDIFICATION OF ALL THOSE FIDESZ SUPPORTERS:

    “…his bill never made it into the hopper, the wooden box near the Speaker’s desk in which all new bills were deposited before bing printed for consideration by committees…”

    –year: 1848, USA; p. 162, White, “A. Lincoln”

    Sounds just like Orban’s Parliament, don’t it?

  7. “It’s hardly worth picking up the argument with such sheer nonsense.”

    Although it might be better to pick up the argument than just dump empty vitriol on a fellow poster.

    And I wasn’t ‘wrong’ – I freely admitted that I had no sources to substantiate what I said, and that it might not be accurate. However it is a commonly stated view of many modern historians that the Roma suffered at least as much as the Jews – and a fact that their suffering was, and has been, largely ignored. I was merely repeating this.

    None of this makes me an anti-Semite, nor a ‘Roma lover’. Our Hungarian home is in Debrecen, and my in-laws come from villages in the east and in Ukraine, so, yes, I have had plenty of contact with Roma. And, as with Jews, Irish, Indian and English, some I liked, some I didn’t – but since when has my liking or disliking someone, or even understanding their predicament, got anything to do with how much they suffer from racism, persecution or injustice?

    And, if your response to what you consider to be an anti-Semitic comment is to post exactly the sort of simplistic racist nonsense that you would be (quite rightly) horrified by if it the Jews were its target, then I suggest it is you, not me, who should “consider the ‘meaning’ of words, rather than just plunking them out there…”.

  8. @Petofi1

    The situation of the Romani peoples in Europe is quite peculiar in the sense that state-based discrimination continued on a large scale after 1945, which is one reason (among others) why their fate during the Second World War was hardly acknowledged until recently.

    Paul probably had a wrong conception about the porajmos as far as the casualties estimates are concerned, though the one quoted by somebody else about Hungary dates from the early 90s, and has been challenged since. But his biggest mistake was to use casualties figures as an argument in the first place… and you’re making the same mistake.

    You cannot equate the Shoah and the Porajmos because they were different in motives and organization. It is not about the numbers. If you enter this debate with numbers as your main argument, you’ll soon find yourself cornered by people stating that leaders such as Horthy in Hungary or Pétain in France ‘protected the Jews’, which his pure nonsense. Please don’t make this about numbers, all victims deserve much more than statistics.

    Finally, your antitziganist rant seems straight out of a Jobbik rally. Surely, they can be quite ‘pungent’ too… I’m not sure it’s a quality nor an excuse.

  9. Both of them need to stop fighting, It is 2012 soon to be 2013, have we not learned from history that all men are created equal, we all got red blood, and same muscle color, underneath the skin. Everyone needs the right to be different andco-exist with one another.

  10. In my comment yesterday I suggested that the scandal caused by Gyongyossy’s Nazi provocation was a PR coup for Fidesz, especially in the international arena. I thought I should share an example. It’s an opinion piece in the respectable German conservative daily Die Welt, written by Boris von Kalnoky, published today. Over the past few months I read a number of pieces by Kalnoky that are apologetic of the Orban regime. He likes to rehearse the familiar argument that the greatest danger for Hungary is the racist extreme Right, from which Fidesz alone can protect the country. So he is pushing all the right buttons to make German conservatives (of the government coalition, of the business elite etc.) side with Fidesz (anything but Nazis!). In August, Kalnoky praised the fiscal consolidation achieved by Orban and made the patently crazy suggestion–surely music to the ears of conservative German readers who are fed up with pouring money into the Greek black hole–that the Orbanist recipe might just be the solution for Greece too. As if ad hoc taxes could make the tiniest dent on the mountain of Greek debt, and as if austerity hadn’t already crippled what’s left of the economy of Greece… However, Kalnoky’s latest piece tops his previous contributions in terms of insidiousness. After the predictable expressions of outrage at Gyongyossy’s proposal, Kalnoky draws the following conclusion: “The government as well as the opposition are incurring guilt if they don’t change their attitude. A strategy paper of the socialists has made it clear that they want to combat the conservative ruling party Fidesz, not Jobbik. Jobbik voters are often former voters of the Left. The independent opposition leader Gordon Bajnai seems to think the same–his foundation Haza es Haladas wrote in an analysis that Jobbik is not worth talking about in terms of election technicalities. Authorities must exhaust all available means of prosecution.” So Kalnoky puts more emphasis on the putative responsibility of the socialists and Bajnai for the rise of Jobbik than on the responsibility of Fidesz (on which he doesn’t comment at all)! And while he’s at it he also suggests that socialist voters are susceptible to Nazism (how this is supposed to explain the socialists’ alleged reluctance to combat Jobbik remains a mystery). Of course there is no mention in his article of the election law from which Gyongyossy diverted everyone’s attention. If this passes as intelligent commentary on Hungarian affairs in Germany is it any surprise that the German government is treating Orban with kid gloves?

  11. marton :
    Boris von Kalnoky… a number of pieces by Kalnoky that are apologetic of the Orban regime.

    Maybe it’s for the redemption of his clan’s ancestral land in Romania that Herr von Kalonky is counting on Fidesz’s Greater Hungary policy — though his cousin Tibor sounds more sympathique:

  12. Well, one can certainly understand the attachment to such a beautiful place. A sympathetic man, sure. Impressive work restoring the estate. But I’m also glad he doesn’t have serfs and glad too that he couldn’t reclaim all of the ancestral lands. As for Boris Kalnoky, I just noticed that despite my wish to bracket assumptions based on his last name I was unwittingly misled by just such assumptions. I misremembered: it looks like he doesn’t use the aristocratic “von.” I didn’t mean to create the impression that he was a snob–sorry. Really the only thing I care about is how incredibly misleading his articles are.

  13. Marton, it is very kind that you try to be fair with Mr Kalnoky. But as he is such a partial commentator on Hungary (which is known), and has also written in a quite positive manner about Fidesz already in the Swiss Weltwoche, now close to the Swiss People’s Party of Christoph Blocher, that there are no doubts about his mindset. National-conservative. There are people in Germany who do share this mindset, even if you will not find it in (e.g.) Spiegel, a liberal weekly.

  14. Just to make it clear:

    The German paper “Welt” is a very conservative and natioanlistic (some might say reactionary …) paper by the Springer Verlag which also produces BILD, the most horrible (and widely read …) daily.

    Springer and its people are right-wing even for the reigning conservative Christian Democrats (CDU) !

    The leaders of the CDU have often expressed their problems with Fidesz and its illiberal policies – only a small minority in the CDU has real sympathies for the devil, sorry Orbán …

    These are “the old guard” representing those Germans who had to leave Hungary, Poland Czech republic etc after WW2 and still want to return …

    BTW, my father came from Danzig (in polish Gdansk) to the Black Forest where he met my mother – but he and his siblings never talked about wanting to return, only for a visit!

  15. Eva S. Balogh :

    Stevan Harnad :
    (Kalnoky) Here’s one in English: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PQJ_kSLt08&feature=endscreen

    I just wanted to say. What else do you expect from a Kálnoky?

    I think, Eva, that the irony of my “redemption” (irredenta) and “Greater Hungary” may have been lost on some readers… (But, as an individual, Tibor either has very good impression-management training, or he seems the Szekely counterpart of HRH Prince Charles — Blue Blood, but detoxified (thankfully) by circumstances, hence not secretly yearning for a return to Droit de Seigneur… I agree, of course, with Marci that he’s already got back more than enough of his ancestral land: Now let him set up the booming artisto-tourist business and help the local economy, and preserve the local fauna and flora from Scottish deforestation; perhaps at least his (genuine) culture and taste will prevent a descent into Disneyfication…)

    But these are trivia compared to the matters at hand, of which the Hungarian gerrymandered electoral laws, as eloquently pointed out by Marci, is surely far more important. Apologies for the distraction.

  16. Eva, you noted, “BBC’s short article describes Jobbik, the party to which Márton Gyöngyösi belongs, as a nationalistic party.” I would comment that in my view the current BBC reporter is outrageously pro-Fidesz and totally goes along with the Fidesz-Jobbik “good cop, bad cop” charade. Disgusting.

  17. hongorma :

    Eva, you noted, “BBC’s short article describes Jobbik, the party to which Márton Gyöngyösi belongs, as a nationalistic party.” I would comment that in my view the current BBC reporter is outrageously pro-Fidesz and totally goes along with the Fidesz-Jobbik “good cop, bad cop” charade. Disgusting.

    Oh, yes, Nick Thorpe is a disgrace to the journalistic profession.

  18. Eva S. Balogh :

    hongorma :
    Eva, you noted, “BBC’s short article describes Jobbik, the party to which Márton Gyöngyösi belongs, as a nationalistic party.” I would comment that in my view the current BBC reporter is outrageously pro-Fidesz and totally goes along with the Fidesz-Jobbik “good cop, bad cop” charade. Disgusting.

    Oh, yes, Nick Thorpe is a disgrace to the journalistic profession.

    French number 1 national newspaper Le Figaro (conservative) has had the same editorial line since 2010.

    In an article published today on this subject, the journalist compliments the reaction of the Fidesz Government to Gyöngyösi’s speech, forgetting to mention the copy-paste thing…

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