Trianon and the Hungarians

The first time I heard about the fifteen million Hungarians who allegedly live in the Carpathian basin was in 1990 when József Antall announced that in spirit he was the prime minister of fifteen million Hungarians. A few days ago the new speaker of the house, Pál Schmitt, announced in his maiden speech that “it is necessary for the members of the Hungarian parliament to accept responsibility for the fate of fifteen million Hungarians.” As if that weren’t enough, Zsolt Németh, who most likely will again be in charge of Hungarian foreign policy as undersecretary to János Martonyi, stated in no uncertain terms that the time has arrived when “Hungary at last may become a country fifteen million strong.” So I thought it was high time to count. The result of my investigation is that not even according to the 1910 census were there five million Hungarians who ended up on the wrong side of the borders.

My calculations are based on the data gathered by the late C. A. Macartney who first published his findings in Hungary and Her Successors: The Treaty of Trianon and Its Consequences, 1919-1937 (London: Oxford University Press, 1937). A few additional pieces of information were found in his later book, October Fifteenth: A History of Modern Hungary, 1929-1945 (Edinburgh: University Press, 1957). One thing is sure: one cannot accuse Macartney of an anti-Hungarian bias. On the contrary.

As I mentioned earlier, in the 1910 census the question posed by the census takers was not the person’s mother tongue but the language he/she speaks most fluently and most often. On this basis, according to Macartney’s calculations, 1,063,030 people who claimed to speak Hungarian as their first language ended up in Czechoslovakia. That number included Hungarian speakers who lived in Ruthenia (today part of Ukraine), an area that was temporarily allotted to Czechoslovakia. 1,704,851 Hungarian speakers ended up in Romania while 441,787 found themselves in Yugoslavia. The number of Hungarians in Austria and Croatia was insignificant. So the number of Hungarians after World War I in the new successor states was approximately 3,210,000. That of course was a very sizeable number, especially if one considers that the population of post-Trianon Hungary was just over 7 million. However, it was not even close to 5 million.

During the turbulent years of large population movements, a lot of Hungarian speakers left Czechoslovakia, Romania, and Yugoslavia. Macartney estimated between 50,000 and 100,000 just from Czechoslovakia. They were mostly civil servants. Others who were bilingual decided to switch linguistic designation due to the changed circumstances. Thus in 1921, at the time of the first Czechoslovak census, there were only 738,517 who claimed Hungarian as their mother tongue. However, to this number we should add another 150,237 who were put under the rubric of “Jewish.” This new designation was devised in order to reduce the number of Hungarian speakers, because most of the Jews who lived in Slovakia spoke Hungarian. So, by 1921 the Hungarian community had lost 174,266 people. Some of these left the country, others switched to Slovak. Today, even after about 50,000 Hungarians were expelled after World War II, 520,728 Hungarians live in Slovakia. Perhaps the ethnic map based on the 2001 census will explain the reasons for Slovak sensitivities concerning the issue of dual citizenship.


In territories annexed by Romania, based on the 1910 Hungarian census, there were 1,704,851 Hungarians. By 1930 the Romanians claimed that their numbers had decreased substantially. They claimed that there were only 1,373,675 Hungarians in Romania. One cannot take this number very seriously because today, after many, many years, the number of Hungarians (2002) is 1,431,807. From this number it is also clear that the assimilation of the Hungarian minority to the majority nationality is not as great as the Hungarians claim.

To Serbia (Voivodina) Hungary lost 441,787 Hungarian speakers. By 1921 their numbers were only 382,070. Today, according to the official statistics there are only 290,000 Hungarians in Serbia.

As for Ukraine, according to the 1910 census 169,434 Hungarian speakers lived in this northeast corner of pre-Trianon Hungary called Kárpátalja or Ruténia (Ruthenia). By the 1921 census their numbers allegedly shrank to 103,690, but again it is probable that perhaps even the majority of the 79,715 Jews were Hungarian speakers. Today 156,000 Hungarians live in Ukraine.

So, how many Hungarians currently live in the Carpathian basin? In Hungary proper there are about 10 million people as opposed to the 7 million in 1921. In that year the number of Hungarians living outside of Hungary’s borders was about 3.2 million. Today their number is 2.2 million. Thus altogether we can speak of slightly more than 12 million Hungarians. Not 15 million.

As Tamás Bauer in a recent article pointed out, the creation of the successor states was not by itself an unjust act. After all, while before Trianon 52% of the population of Greater Hungary lived as minorities within a unitary state, after Trianon that number shrank to 29%. Today because of migration, emigration, and assimilation that number is down to about 10-12%.

Twenty years ago during the Antall and Horn governments Hungary concluded treaties with Croatia, Ukraine, Slovakia, and Romania. These countries promised to defend minority rights, including educational opportunities in their mother tongue, and in return Hungary agreed to the final and irrevocable recognition of the existing borders.

According to Bauer, the Hungarian right greatly dislikes these treaties, and he suggests that what they object to is the final recognition of the borders. Of course, the incoming government would deny such an accusation, but there are many signs that they are planning “to make irredentism the state religion” of the country. All this, for Bauer, recalls the 1920s and 1930s.

I must say that some of the language in the new Hungarian parliament takes my breath away. One Fidesz representative, while objecting to punishment for the denial of the Holocaust, announced that he would be very happy if jail term were the punishment for those who deny the existence of God. Another Fidesz MP, while discussing toughening the criminal code and supporting the Fidesz idea of introducing the “three strikes and you’re out” law in Hungary, was happy to discover the Hungarian antecedents of such a law in the criminal code of St. Stephen. There it is stated that the first time a slave stole, his nose would be cut off; the second time, his ears would be cut off. You can imagine what happened on the third offense. And the opposition sat there speechless.

36 comments

  1. Eva,
    What your map of Slovakia quite clearly shows though is the clear flaw in the borders drawn up after WWI, which left areas with a Hungarian majority outside the mother countr’s borders. That was the clear injustice of Trianon as we know. The reality is modern day Slovakia should be about 15% smaller, based on the majority ethnicity of the population. But then the Danube was an easy dividing line for a good part of the border.
    One particular point has struck me about Trianon and that is compartively speaking, the Austrians ceded a lot less territory, while being the driving force behind the Austro-Hungarian empire. Granted, more people had “scores to settle” with Hungary, but even so, they got off very lightly.

  2. “One Fidesz representative, while objecting to punishment for the denial of the Holocaust, announced that he would be very happy if jail term were the punishment for those who deny the existence of God.”
    All rather pathetic really.

  3. John T.: “But then the Danube was an easy dividing line for a good part of the border.”
    Actually the Czechs insisted on the Danube for “defense” reasons. American-British representatives tried to convince the Czechs to give up the idea and talked to Masaryk. Masaryk was more or less ready to talk about it, but Benes intervened.

  4. And the reasoning of the Hungarian delegation was, that Hungarians should not be forced to other countries because Hungarians are “culturally superior”. It was a pathetic reasoning.

  5. I always understood that the aforemnetioned 15 million meant to include not only Hungarians living in the’ former territories,’ but to Hungarians living all over the world , the US included.

  6. Kata: “I always understood that the aforemnetioned 15 million meant to include not only Hungarians living in the’ former territories,’ but to Hungarians living all over the world , the US included.”
    There is no way that there are another 2.5 million Hungarians living in Western Europe, North America and Australia. Just because someone has Hungarian roots it doesn’t mean that this person considers himself Hungarian.
    The future foreign minister of Hungary mentioned the number of Hungarians living on the North American continent as 120,000. I guess, these people were actually born there.

  7. Kata, the problem with these figures is that the number of 1.5 million doesn’t indicate that many Hungarians. Only people with some Hungarian ancestry. So, someone whose maternal grandparents came from Hungary while on his father’s side he is Italian will indicate Hungarian and Italian ancestry while he himself considers himself American. You can’t take these figures at face value.

  8. @Eva S. Balogh
    On this page:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_American#Demographics
    “as of 2006, with − according to 2000 census data − 1,398,724 of them indicating Hungarian as their first ancestry.[5] Estimates of the number of Hungarians in the United States go well above 4 million.”
    So there are 1,3 million who consider their Hungarian ancestry as the dominant one.
    In the end it doesn’t really matter if its 13 or 15 million in total. The real point is that about 1/3 of Hungarians live outside Hungary, who would now probably live inside Hungary if there were no Trianon dictate.

  9. Steve: “The real point is that about 1/3 of Hungarians live outside Hungary, who would now probably live inside Hungary if there were no Trianon dictate.”
    I think this needs further explanation.
    As far as 1.5 million Hungarians in the United States. Wake up. These people were born here and they are Americans. Most of them don’t even know a word of Hungarian

  10. I agree that much diplomacy is called forth in Hungary’s foreign politics with the neighbouring countries. However, especially because of the decreasing number of Hungarians a healthy Diaspora politics would not be a bad idea on the part of the Government. It is practiced by other countries as well, especially where there is significant decrease in the population. Diaspora of course is to be understood in the modern sense, in which the important feature is loyalty to a cause and not lineage, blood or genetic makeup.

  11. 96 years ago the Austro-Hungarian Empire started a war which eventually enveloped the world. This war caused some 37 (thirty seven) million dead and wounded (21 million dead and 17 million maimed and other injuries). It ruined the economies of central Europe, badly damaged others.
    The Austro–Hungarian Empire which was mainly created by Austrian bayonets or those carried by the indignant population under Austrian leadership. It was very polyglot intermixed society steeped in feudalism and serfdom.
    At the end of the war the victors decided that such a confederacy that evolved amongst those who began the war should NEVER again arise. The Austro-Hungarian Empire was dissolved. The Hungarian part was the larger and the most disparate part of the empire and was duly dismantled. The governments of the various new countries were encouraged to exchange peoples. This was mainly ignored. In their ‘orgy of nation building’ the various majorities in the new nations settled old scores with their perceived enemies (Hungarians). An example due to worries safety of their new borders The Romanians forced the Hungarians from their new western boarders to their less sensitive eastern provinces. Knowing the character of their South Western neighbours the new Czechoslovakia demanded a strong and easily defendable border, the line of the Danube became it. Little or nothing was done about their non Czech population. Eventually the Slovaks seceded, as I understand, quite amicably from their Northern confederates.
    The problem for the Hungarians which in the main is due to their language and their education system is that they do not understand the ‘why and wherefore’ of either the peace treaties which gave them back their self government. They have this tremendous blindness about anything beyond their experience and they just will not listen to those who do know.
    The obsession with Trianon poisons relationships with their neighbours and their attitudes to the world at large. If the Hungarian state spent ten percent of the effort they expend on trying to undo something which happened 90 years ago this land would be very rich. If those Hungarians who live n this land could get that ‘chip’ off their shoulders and dump the baggage it implies may be they could succeed as many of their of their ex-pats have done (like our hostess on this Blog has achieved). But I suppose the mystique of the Kingdom of Hungary is too great and the dreams of ‘former days of glory’ is too attractive.
    As an after thought the war started by the Austro-Hungarian Empire gave rise to forms of extremism whose leaders deliberately killed millions more. 5 to 10 million in the Ukraine (were starved to death). This caused a further 62 to 78 million dead in the Second World War.
    If I switch on my cynicism to full power, I suppose it is something to be proud, of to start a war which to date has caused the deaths of between 90 to 109 million human beings.

  12. Odin’s Lost eye
    Trianon still an obsession? Well, had the Hungarians had the freedom for public discourses about their trauma of loss during the later decades of the tumultous 20 th century they may have been able to manage themeselves better by now. Had they had the opportunity to leave their country and study in the West e.g and learn languages they may have a much more sophisticated and enlighetened view about matters of life and history. They may also have a much more refined ability to self criticism as others , who had the chance to get to know different cultures have, as we know . Had they had leaders with more integrity (no wonder the opposition did not dare to say a word hearing the list of punishments for stealing,) even in the past decade or so, they might be able to live up to more contemporary ideals of success!
    Besides, though I do appreciate criticism and I do think there is much to criticize in each and every country’s current affairs as well as past actions, I do not beleive that emphasizing how people are stupid and morons is a good way to persuade them to learn.

  13. “I do not beleive that emphasizing how people are stupid and morons is a good way to persuade them to learn.”
    Kata – Odin’s Lost eye’s message isn’t saying this at all.

  14. @John
    The quoted passage below sounded a bit arrogant:
    “The problem for the Hungarians which in the main is due to their language and their education system is that they do not understand the ‘why and wherefore’ of either the peace treaties which gave them back their self government. They have this tremendous blindness about anything beyond their experience and they just will not listen to those who do know.”
    And who are those “who do know”? There’re debates all the time even in legal issues.
    Furthermore, I also hold the view that in our time and age, when nation states are coming to an end it should not be a main concern of politics. But is it really the revisionist rehtoric of a few which is really responsible for the current economic state of affairs in the region (both in Hungary and Transylvania?)

  15. Odin … has said it quite clearly!
    I have to applaud him. Hungarians and all other Europeans should look forward – not backward.
    Only if all Europeans stand together do we have a chance against the old and new economic giants in the world. The smaller countries will fade into insignificance. I hope that the United States of Europe will move fast to reality …

  16. Just wanted to add that I understand Odin’s Lost eye’s overall message as well.
    The bottom line if I am not mistaken, is that Hungary should break with the past, after all it might not have been that glorious anyway, and focus with all its energy to build a better future.

  17. Wolfi: “Odin … has said it quite clearly! I have to applaud him. Hungarians and all other Europeans should look forward – not backward.”
    I couldn’t agree more. The Slovak Pravda’s remark about the Hungarians who are masters of tearing open old wounds is very accurate. Nothing good will come of all this, believe me.

  18. Kata,
    The way I understood the point was that currently. Trianon continues to be viewed as a tragedy for Hungary(and it was) by Hungarian society today, but the “bigger picture” of how Trianon was arrived it is not appreciated as much as it should be. If you asked the average Brit about Trianon, they would most likely simply say that it was a consequence of war and Hungary was on the losing side and Britain also suffered terribly too. The may have sympathy with the minority issue, but probably not much.
    Simplistic of course, but essentially true. No Hungarian school would teach it in the same way.

  19. I find some of the comments here very one-sided. First of all, there was nothing happening in Hungary that was extraordinary, or “requiring great effort” (which could be thus invested elsewhere). The law to give citizenship more easily to Hungarians living outside Hungary is done in normal procedure, just like done by other countries. Its not something that “overly mobilizes” the resources of Hungarian state, its just a new, slightly modified citizenship law.
    All the reason why this makes you talk about something “extraordinary” is because Mr Fico, the prime minister of Slovakia is making an issue about it. He is in need of attention, because there is an election going on in Slovakia. So because Fico is making a show against Hungarians, you must side yourself with him?
    There are individuals with revisionist ideas in Hungary, but so there are extremists elsewhere. There is Slota in Slovakia, who would gladly drive a tank to Budapest. There is the Greater Romania party in Romania. The 15% of Hungarian far-right is comparable to those in any other countries.
    This issue is not Hungarian. It is Slovakian issue with its own nationalist politicians using “the Hungarian card” to mobilise their own voters.
    Besides of the Hungarian sorrow over Trianon, there is a different feeling in population belonging to the other side, the Slovaks, Romanians and Serbs. It is called guilt. Yes, there is the feeling of guilt in them, because they know very well that Trianon was an unjust procedure. Slota himself said some year ago: “we (Slovaks) are thieves, we have stolen our country”.
    This feeling of guilt has an effect on their politics. First of all, they are expecting that if it is in Hungary’s power, that it will question the borders, they are expecting it not because Hungary wants to question the borders, but because they FEEL that there is base for such questioning. So, they need reassurance from time to time, that Hungary doesn’t wants those territories back. The second effect is that they overreact everything, like someone who was caught in a lie. How to name the current behaviour of Fico, than hysteria?
    You can say that Hungary has not come to peace with the Trianon dictate. But so had not the other countries either.
    Just look at what effort the Slovak parliament exerts to make laws against use of Hungarian language, to limit Hungarian schools in teaching Hungarian. I think it is a much bigger effort expended on limiting the (human) rights of Hungarians in Slovakia, than what energies the Hungarian parliament does in regards to Trianon. The Slovak leadership behaves as like the Slovakian citizenship of Hungarians in Slovakia is some kind of hostage situation. They are holding their laws as a gun on the heads of the Hungarian minority in Slovakia.

  20. Steve: “All the reason why this makes you talk about something “extraordinary” is because Mr Fico, the prime minister of Slovakia is making an issue about it.”
    And he happens to be the prime minister of Slovakia. So, it is not immaterial whether he is making an issue of it or not! He holds all the cards. It is that simple. Mr. Orbán can flex his muscles but the winner can be only Robert Fico.

  21. @Eva S. Balogh
    “Mr. Orbán can flex his muscles but the winner can be only Robert Fico.”
    In regards to this issue, just this issue alone, don’t you think that Orbán is right and it is Fico who is the “muscle-flexing troublemaker”?

  22. Steve: “@Eva S. Balogh “Mr. Orbán can flex his muscles but the winner can be only Robert Fico.” In regards to this issue, just this issue alone, don’t you think that Orbán is right and it is Fico who is the “muscle-flexing troublemaker”?”
    No, I don’t think so. Orbán is doing the provocation. Fico is only responding.

  23. @Eva S. Balogh
    You know that Fico doesn’t need any specific reason to come up with something against Hungarians. Just remember when Gyurcsány was in power, Fico was as aggressive as now. So do you tell that the bellowed socialist leader Gyurcsány was also a nationalistic troublemaker? I’m sure you will not label Gyurcsány as such, but Fico behaved the same.
    What was the reason for enacting the Slovakian language-law? Was it a response to Gyurcsány’s provocation?

  24. The reasons I wrote as I did can be seen in my last paragraph from which I will repeat the important words and to get them in proportion the estimated population of the 27 countries of the E.U. in 2010 was 501,259,840. My words were: – To “start a war which to date has caused the deaths of between 90 to 109 million human beings”. In human terms the deaths caused by that war are the equivalent of about 1 in 5 of modern population of the E.U. In terms of the U.S.A the death rate would be 1/3 of the population. Enough said!
    I did not wish to imply that the average Hungarian was ‘dim’. They are no dimmer than the average European (including my self), but they are far more parochial. But those from ‘Old Europe’ are far more aware of the ‘rest of the world’.
    The problems of minorities are being exploited by would be ‘Fuhrers’ to gain power by playing the ‘race card’. This to me is a path to ‘damnation destruction and Hell’. We have to live with our neighbours and if we cannot do so, then we should move.
    I understand that the Hungarian feels aggrieved with the treaties of Trianon and Paris (1947) and claim them to be unjust. The Japanese surrender left them totally bereft. What did they do? They rolled up their sleeves, dug out their old tools and jigs they used before the war and got to work using whatever they could salvage. The people found a Guru, one William Edwards Deming (the great lord and master of Quality). They took his teachings to heart the result is well known. My question is why did the Hungarians do likewise? It was the Japanese people not its political leaders who took Deming’s words to heart.
    Yesterday I watched a little report on BBC world about a railway in Japan which has to be re-built each spring (and dismantle it each autumn). One of the workers said they do it because they liked to see their passengers’ delight at the end of their journey. Could these sorts of feelings be expressed in Hungary? (Answers please!)
    Hungarians seem to be steeped in ‘woe and misery’. Why it is a good place? Roll up your sleeves, get at it and be happy!

  25. What is truly disappointing in Hungary is that there has not been a strong voice arguing on the basis of facts and reason and recognizing that the treaty, however injurous, was not going to be revised, let alone reversed, and that the task of the post-treaty Hungarian state was to make a country that functioned and prospered within the given borders. All of the discussion of Trianon has, ultimately, been no more than a rhetorical excuse for not doing that job.
    A comparison with Germany, which lost all of its eastern territories and suffered massive displacements of its population as well at the end of the _second_ world war yet ultimately used the displacement to its advantage in the development of the postwar state and economy is not flattering to Hungary. Sure, there is a tiny group of displaced persons in Germany who continue to dream of compensation or even return, but the vast majority of the German population has come to terms with the settlement and most have done very well indeed.

  26. I would like to remind to our Hungarian friends, that Hungary of St. Stephen is not a property of nowadays Hungarian Republic. Todays Hungary signed Trianon as well and has nothing to do with the Hungarian Kingdom. The old kingdom belongs to all people in Carpathian Basin – Hungarians, Germans, Slovaks, Romanians and Croats. There is no successor state of the Kingdom, Hungary has not the rioght to own it. Even if Germans, Slovaks or Croats do not claim or like St. Stephens Kingdom, it is their history and spiritual property, as is of Hungarians. So pelase, stop wave with the Trianon. Hungary, Slovakia, Croatia should focus on cooperation, building up their economies. It is a shame if such a vast country as Hungary is, is economically weaker then its neighbours, including Slovakia. My forefathers were Hungarian noblemen. They built the Kingdom in the same way as others did in the past. I am not Hungarian, but have the same right to cherish the Kingdom, and at the same time consired todays Hungary as foreigh country, but friendly. But please Hungarians, do not steal me the St. Stephens Kingdom, it is my as well, not the property of Mr. Orban or Hungarians. St. Istvan was a very clever man. He cooperated with the Nitra people (today it is western Slovakia) and did built a great country, where all people, all nations were equal. Why Trianon is so important to Hungary? They want to be wealthy from the past?

  27. @Steve
    “There is the Greater Romania party in Romania. The 15% of Hungarian far-right is comparable to those in any other countries.”
    No, it is not. In 2008, the Greater Romania Party got 3,15% of the votes and didn’t enter Parliament (there is a 5% threshold).

  28. I wonder whether (under the purely hypothetical scenario) the Slovak Hungarians would vote in referendum to joint Hungary. The Budapest elites do not quite display any meaningful capacity to govern the current Hungary. Over the last decade they managed to reverse history and make Hungary proper poorer than Slovakia and it is likely to get worse. Soon enough the above question could be as ridiculous as asking Hungarians from Burgenland whether they would rejoin. Moreover, the Slovak Hungarian elites have much more influence within Slovak politics than they would ever have in Hungarian one. I guess they are all quite happy being citizens of something less bankrupt than Hungary. Am I wrong to think that bread and butter issues trump identity politics?

  29. Steve, first of all, I would invite you to consider the following passage:
    “The [Irish Nationality and Citizenship Act 1956] therefore provided for Irish citizenship for anyone born in the island of Ireland whether before or after independence. The only limitations to which were that *anyone born in Northern Ireland was not automatically an Irish citizen but entitled to be an Irish citizen* and, that a child of someone entitled to diplomatic immunity in the state would not become an Irish citizen. The Act also provided for open-ended citizenship by descent and for citizenship by registration for the wives (but not husbands) of Irish citizens.
    The treatment of Northern Ireland residents in these sections had considerable significance for the state’s territorial boundaries, given that their “sensational effect … was to confer, in the eyes of Irish law, citizenship on the vast majority of the Northern Ireland population”.[44] *The compatibility of this innovation with international law, according to Ó Caoindealbháin was dubious, “given its attempt to regulate the citizenship of an external territory … In seeking to extend jus soli citizenship beyond the state’s jurisdiction, the 1956 Act openly sought to subvert the territorial boundary between North and South”.* The implications of the Act were readily recognised in Northern Ireland, with Lord Brookeborough tabling a motion in the Parliament of Northern Ireland repudiating “the gratuitous attempt … to inflict unwanted Irish Republican nationality upon the people of Northern Ireland”.[45] (my emphases, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_nationality_law)
    I happen to agree with you that Fico’s reaction had a lot to do with the fact that the election campaign is going on in Slovakia. However, had Orban wanted to make sure that the Hungarians in Slovakia were treated the best way possible, there was an obvious step he could have taken: delay the passage of the act until after the elections in Slovakia were over. He did not have control over what Fico would do, but he certainly had control over his own actions. So why exactly was a two-month delay so unacceptable?
    Secondly, as the passage above suggests, the issue of nationality is not, in terms of international diplomacy, separate of the issue of state sovereignty. Double citizenship through marriage, birth or naturalisation are usually not problematic since they don’t tend to have any territorial consequences. Not so with conferring the citizenship, or at least the option of citizenship, on a mass of citizens of a neighbouring country. I think that in the abstract, had this not been an emotional issue for both sides, this would not be difficult to see. Aside from the Irish situation, another such example is presented by Romania, which also conferred the option of double citizenship on Moldavians, with a fairly open intention of strengthening the Unification movements in that country – in other words, again in order to strengthen the possibility of extending its sovereignty. (I was not aware of this fact until I happened to read a statement by a Jobbik deputy, saying explicitly that the idea was copied from the Romanians.) Which is presumably also why Romania remained quiet about the issue – loud protest was not exactly an option.
    So, in sum: Fico’s reaction, and actually the reaction of the whole of the Slovak political spectrum, may have been overly hysterical, due to the need to appear strong before the elections and appeal to the nationalist sentiment. However, the exterritorial aspects of the double citizenship law would not be lost on anyone familiar with similar examples from elsewhere in the world, and I fear that no government duly concerned for its territorial integrity would be able to simply ignore it as a non-issue (with a possible exception of the “Romanian Case”).

  30. (Apologies for possible double posting, but the first attempt does not seem to have been successful at the moment.)
    John T
    “What your map of Slovakia quite clearly shows though is the clear flaw in the borders drawn up after WWI, which left areas with a Hungarian majority outside the mother countr’s borders. That was the clear injustice of Trianon as we know. The reality is modern day Slovakia should be about 15% smaller, based on the majority ethnicity of the population.”
    I’m afraid the situation was not so simple. Even according to the 1910 census, 141,882 Slovak speakers remained within the borders of Hungary after Trianon, chiefly in areas not immediately adjacent to the new border. And while the new Southern Slovakia may have had a majority of Hungarian speakers, this did not, obviously, imply that there were no Slovaks present – these territories were mixed.
    From these two facts, it follows that drawing the line differently might have resulted in a smaller or no Hungarian minority in the new Czecho-Slovak state – but at the same time, in a sizeable minority of Slovaks remaining within the new Hungary, and given the much smaller size of the Slovak ethnic nation to begin with, the percentage would be very significant.
    In other words, the “injustice” is not as obvious as it might seem from that particular map – the problem is that simply on the basis of ethnicity, there was likely no real way of drawing sustainable borders without cutting into one or the other national body.
    Certainly, the fact that Austria-Hungary was a defeated power in WWI helped to cement the claim of Slovaks to the territory; but on the other hand, given the treatment of the Slovak speakers during the years of Magyarisation, it is hardly surprising if there was at the time a strong feeling that as many of them should be included in the new Republic as possible, rather than being abandoned to the authority of the new Hungarian state.

  31. “Besides of the Hungarian sorrow over Trianon, there is a different feeling in population belonging to the other side, the Slovaks, Romanians and Serbs. It is called guilt.”
    I don’t know for the others but for us Romanians Trianon was a right thing to happened. No offense but we don’t feel any guilt for that.

  32. I THINK THE HUNGARIANS HAVE ALL RIGHT TO HAVE BACK THE OWN LAND STOLEN FROM THEM AND SEPERATED LOTS FAMILY THE ARE HARD WORKING PEOPLE ALWAYS OTHER COUNTRYS USING THEM, ONE MORE THINKS IF GERMANY HAVE RIGHT TO HAVE BACK BERLIN WHY THE HUNGARIANS NOT? I HOPE THE WILL WEEK UP AND FIGHT OVER THIS STUPID TRIANON.
    I VISITED HUNGARY OH MY GOD THE FOOD WAS GREAT AND THE AIR AND THE LAND LIKE HOLY LAND HAVE SOME DIFERENT ENERGY WHAT I NEVER HAVE FELING BEFORE AND THE TERMAL WATERS PLACES JUST BEUTIFUL, PEOPLE WAS NICE FRENDLY.NOW I CAN UNDERSTUND WHY EVERYBODY WANT TO HAVE HUNGARY.
    I JUST WISH FOR THIS PEOPLE STRONGNES AND ENERGY TO FIGHT BACK TRIANON.
    GOD BLES HUNGARY.

  33. I am reading a most interesting book by Mark Mazower. It is called ‘Hitler’s Empire’. It deals with the (oft times murderous) Nazi Rule in Occupied Europe. One part of it described the events which occurred after the dismantling of Czechoslovakia and the ‘Award of Vienna’. This gave part of Slovakia to Hungary. Mazower says that the Local Hungarian population in Slovakia at first welcomed their return to ‘the motherland’ but within 3 to 4 months turned against their new masters. The reason was in the old Czechoslovakia they were used to democracy and now they were faced with the authoritian rule of the ‘Kingdom’ of Hungary and it’s Regent and the administrators who were sent from Hungary to administer them and apply the full force of alien (Hungarian) laws. In many ways they were relieved when the old boundaries were reinstated by the Treaty of Paris (1947).
    Now that Slovakia is ‘In Europe’ there seems to be no great rush for them to return to the ‘motherland’. I suspect that the majority are ‘doing very nicely’ (in comparison to their neighbours).

  34. I think there was no problem about the Hungarians rolling up their sleeves…
    They rebuilt their country twice, nicely after two lost war.
    But the injustice is injustice, and nobody can be expected to be happy about this.
    This felling never going ti change, because ti is not only against the Hungarians. The whole region is pushed to the margin of Europe.
    And that was the REAL reason: Blocking the existence of an empire in east Europe.
    The present power system is crumbling, and the Hungarians feel it, so there is an other push for the revision of Trianon :
    http://trianon-dilemma.blogspot.com/

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