The first detailed description of the flashmob that took place in front of László Csatáry’s house on July 16 was published in Kanadai Magyar Hírlap. The author of the article was Eszter Garai-Édler, a participant, who was subsequently identified by some of the readers of kuruc.info. The threats against her have been relentless ever since. Two came from Béla Varga himself, who offered a bounty of 75,000 forints to the most diligent “informers” on the identities of the demonstration’s participants. One of the threatening letters was in English and ended with: “A friendly advice … . get life insurance.”
Soon enough some Hungarian-language newspapers and Internet sites reported on the flashmob organized by Jewish activists and sympathizers, but I couldn’t find anything in Magyar Nemzet, for example. Garai-Édler remarked in her story of the demonstration that the Hungarian media didn’t seem to be interested in their planned demonstration. Mostly foreign journalists were present. In fact, it was AFP that reported at length on the event. The articles all mentioned the harassment the organizers suffered after being identified on kuruc.info’s website.
The answer was an immediate counterattack by the editors of kuruc.info. The article entitled “Poor Jewish students are being harassed by the readers of Kuruc.info” was written in the inimitable style of this neo-Nazi site that leveled a personal attack against one of the organizers, Andrea Gergely of the Union of European Jewish Students. Kuruc.info was greatly offended that Gergely went to the police and demanded an investigation of the website’s practice of listing e-mail addresses and telephone numbers of people whose political views they don’t like.
After Andrea Gergely’s visit to the police, the Union of Jewish Religious Communities (Mazsihisz) also filed a complaint at the Supreme Prosecutor’s Office because of the publication of personal data as well as the threats received by the identified participants.
One can no longer find any information on Facebook on either Andrea Gergely or Eszter Garai-Édler, two of the participants mentioned by name on kuruc.info. But even the less prominent members of the group severed their ties with the well known social networks. However, Garai-Édler talked at length to a reporter for Népszabadság. Although she was deeply shaken by the hundreds of threatening letters, phone calls, and ugly comments, she doesn’t regret her participation in the event. In fact, she felt that the reaction of the neo-Nazis clearly shows that there is need for such actions. “It tells a lot about the state of the country when certain people take up the cause of a former ghetto commander with such determination,” she added. Another person who was identified, Gábor Sajósi, was taking the whole affair in stride. As he said, nothing can surprise him anymore. According to kuruc.info, Sajósi is “a true Gyurcsányist.” Garai-Édler considers herself to be committed to the values of liberal democracy and has been politically active, especially since the fall of 2009 when it became obvious that liberal democracy in Hungary was in crisis. As a civilian she has been responsible for several anti-government demonstrations. The third person on the photo, Mrs. Ferenc Démeth, was lucky. Kuruc.info activists didn’t manage to get her name.
The Jerusalem Post also visited kuruc.info and reported that the website is full of antisemitic imagery, including a Nazi hammer crushing the Star of David. The paper specifically quoted these passages: “They [the Jews] complain about various crimes when they are responsible for corrupting our country into communism and later into capitalism” and “They are responsible for the death of many thousands of Hungarians, for the emigration of hundreds of thousands, for the killing of six million fetuses….” I’m especially intrigued by the “killing of six million fetuses.” The Post added that “the Hungarian embassy in Israel on Sunday declined to comment on the website.” I must say that the Hungarian foreign service personnel are an inept bunch. Surely, they could condemn the site in the strongest of terms and assure the Israeli journalists that the Hungarian government is doing everything it legally can to shut down the site. Assuming, of course, that it is.
According to Népszabadság, an official of the Ministry of Interior told the paper’s reporter that the Ministry had already requested the assistance of the FBI, the CIA , the U.S. Department of Justice, and the U.S. Embassy in Budapest. However, he refused to give any details about the Ministry’s own efforts at discovering the identities of the authors and editors of kuruc.info.
It is possible that the national security offices–there are several of them–have been hard at work identifying the men and women behind kuruc.info and the only reason for not divulging any information on the topic is caution. After all, any leaked information might interfere with the investigation. It is also possible, however, that the Hungarians simply dropped the whole problem into the lap of the American authorities. Viktor Orbán’s rather impertinent answer to the fifty U.S. congressmen’s letter would indicate that the Hungarian authorities weren’t overly concerned with kuruc.info. American server, American problem.
Finally, Pusztaranger was correct. Kurucwanted.blogspot wrongly identified the pictures. However, there still might be some connection between the two Vargas because the Californian Béla Varga is also from Mór. Moreover, he seems to have purchased a vineyard near the town. As for his association with Callaway Vineyard&Winery, it seems to have been of short duration. He is now the owner of Red Paprika, a deli in Healdsburg, California where he lives. Red Paprika seems to be a modest establishment because it is described by the sole reviewer of the business as “a little Hungarian store off the beaten path … a quaint little shop. I found a few items in here that were nice, and purchased some interesting tea that makes lovely iced tea, but for the most part, most of the items didn’t come across as totally unique.” As for the Béla Vargas on Facebook, there are absolutely hundreds of them. But Pusztaranger found two walls that most likely belong to him. On one of them we can find among his 150 friends György Budaházy, the man who is currently under indictment for terrorism. The other one seems to be newer, with fewer friends. Both are closed sites.
Dr Balogh: “What amazes me is that Kovach who has been living in this country for over fifty years has learned so little about democracy and adherence to the constitution”
If I could play the difference between your behavior and that based on the Constitution (at least the US one) I could be a virtuoso. Most of your writings are full of unsubstantiated innuendos and contain many mistakes that you very rarely coreect. You present your ideas as facts and then derive them into percieved philosophy . You copy out anything that is written by Nepszabadsag or Galamus or other leftist sites without checking their correctness. You have claimed Varga still as a winemaker, based on one single website’s undated description.You publish wrong photographs for peaple. You are “in love” with Gyurcsany, even though he singlehandedly destroyed the MSzP. You denigrate everybody who disagrees with you and call them “Jobbik” lackeys or fascists.
One thing you sure have learned in your education and that is tremendous conceit.In that you are far above the average,
Kovach: “You denigrate everybody who disagrees with you and call them “Jobbik” lackeys or fascists.”
I would like to see just one example for that assertion.
Oh, Kovach doesn’t need to learn. He knows everything 🙂
And he is such a modest man. If he weren’t so modest, he’d be perfect.
Kovach, I can’t find the words. Your comment is such a shining example of the Hungarian right wing idiocy. Basically you have called the blog writer and the readership clueless morons.
Just for the fun of it. Can you please elaborate on the idea how professor Balogh’s “behavior” contradicts to the US constitution? Please play it Louis Brainstrong!
Kirsten: “People who have been educated abroad such as Jano and who claim to be in favour of liberal values, individual rights and democracy, still doubt that for a democratic political system to function, at least a part of the society needs to be permanently “obsessed” with maintaining that system”
Sorry if I gave you this impression, I think that there are people (like journalists, activists, politicians) should indeed be obsessed about these kind of thing, what I was arguing was that this can’t be expected from the everyday folks to the same extent. I also don’t understand why you write “claim to be”. Are you doubting it?
Eva: ““In case of a United States of Europe all Hungarians could live within the borders of this new country.”
Exactly my thinking. I think Hungary should indeed be pro the USE and instead of full political or economical, it should fight for cultural sovereignity within the framework of this larger country.
Charlie: “your sarcastic weasel words show a cowardly unwillingness to tell it like it is” – So weasel words for my alleged weasel words, nice. Sarcasm is an allowed tool in a debate, even though it hurts when it is turned against you, I suggest you grow a thicker skin.
I don’t know how you managed to mix Hitler into what I wrote about as what I was writing about is that because the victors vengeful attitude and utter desire to humiliate not just the elites that started the war, but the people of the loosing side itself, instead of creating at least a chance for a lasting peace your government (together with the French one) paved the path of the beginning of the road that threw this continent into it’s darkest era. Of course, it was those countries not yours that actually went down that road (with the cowardly British and the collapsing French government standing by until it was too late to prevent WWII). Oh and btw, I’m sure you’ve heard of which country’s concentration camps in South Africa inspired the ones perfected by German proficiency later. That’s where some humbleness could be useful.
And yes, I accept the fact that history is written by the victors, but morality is not. What you’re arguing translates to an equivalent statement of “Had Hitler won WWII, he would have earned the right to exterminate the jews, nazis just suck it up that he didn’t”. One of the most important underlying principle of our modern society is based on is that just because you’re stronger you can’t do whatever the hell you want. Sorry for ruining your national myths but you are not superior and about your cheesy sentiment about the burning houses, well we didn’t just get Hitler’s revenge but also some nice carpetbombings from the RAF not to mention the plundering red army raping it’s way through Budapest and staying here for 50 years. A generation of youth were sent to die by Horthy’s elite to the Don. And there you stand laughing “you guys asked for this this, motherf…rs, yeah we’re so kickass!” – jesus… Yes, it was war and wartime is like that (which I guess you realize with cold blood since you preach so much about accepting), but I violently object to your primitive collective guilt&punishment approach.
With all that said, I’m of course very glad the allies won WWII, I have nothing against the UK, and it was right to use whatever force in a full scale war back then. When I said London, I meant specifically you for that statement. I realize you might have been just infuriated by b.v. (so was I, and if only he was the only one like that we’re ever gonna come across), but sometimes you should use your famous English elegance and think twice before you dial otherwise you’re going to hit a lot more than just your target. And sorry, but you pretty much sounded like a hater. I realize that the above might be a little harsh too but as your post reflected how much you could avoid a knee-jerk response (admittedly), so is the case with mine.
Fantastic! We agree. But Orbán does exactly the opposite. Simply don’t understand.
This is wrong. Very wrong. This is the culture Eva is talking about that has to be changed.
This passivity is also coupled with the total luck of interest in any information that could help them to decide.
I don’t buy the “swamped with everyday problems” idea either. Instead of going to the Balaton, go to the parliament and picket (for the right cause of course). Organize town hall meetings. Volunteer for phone fundraisers. Run around with fliers. Beat the drums.
Here as story from our life here. It’s just an example, it will not change the world. The landlord (aka. evil, money hungry capitalist) wanted to kick out our favorite car repair shop. We, 300 of us, signed a petition and sent it everywhere. 2 days ago I received a personally signed letter from our congressman (really!) that he is helping every way he could. He also warned that the landlord is a private business, so they do whatever they want, but that’s not relevant. See what’s saying?
Orban does the opposite because that’s what serves his own purposes, to have uncontrolled power in Hungary (the last thing he wants is “more EU”; he has trouble with “stupid” EU laws and norms already). The Hungarian minorities are just a good excuse to steer up nationalistic sentiments.
The key to understand Orban is to understand that whatever loft goal he claims to work on, that’s always a facade. The only goal is to hold on to and extend his power and be accountable no one.
Jano, slow down … don’t be so Hungarian.
I think until we win an actual war we should not judge countries that have a long tradition of winning wars.
Please God! Can we win a war? Just a little war … pretty please! How about getting back that few square feet from Slovakia at Gabchikovo? We promise not kill anyone. We badly need to win a war. Our self confidence is in free fall.
Mutt: See, sarcasm’s good:) On this note, I’m sure you’re familiar
Ugh, didn’t think that wordpress would actually embed the video…
On the other one your example is also very good to illustrate why the same doesn’t work in Hungary. People would sign a petition they would go on the street aaaaannnnddd nothing would happen. Maybe an MP would travel there making sure to bring a fair amount of media with himself, give some aggressive speech and then leave. Happened so many times before. What you are looking for in the people is actually there but it won’t come out until individuals would feel that they can actually make a difference. (You know, “they will demonstrate for a while then they will go home” – GYF) I know it’s a vicious cycle that someday will hopefully be broken. Up until then, survival is the first instinct. And I’m not saying it’s right (I really want to stress this), but I do say that I don’t blame them for this as much as e.g. you do.
Throwing that chicken in the air at the end was pretty awesome …
Jano: “One of the most important underlying principle of our modern society is based on is that just because you’re stronger you can’t do whatever the hell you want.”
ONLY if those people who work in the relevant places (institutions – and these have to exist) make sure that this is indeed the case. It is NOT trivial to establish such a system if society has worked for a long time on the opposite principle (and people instinctively understand the “winner-takes-all” attitude whereas it appears more difficult to understand the equal rights of other people).
Your example of the vicious circle is comprehensible and still there will be some explanation why this appears so futile. Mutt wrote some time ago that for money, many people will be willing to do the dirty job, fill the places of people who were sacked out of political and other reasons and so forth. Why is that? The future of the political nation should be equally or nearly equally important as economic well-being. Perhaps the Americans or British on this blog could confirm that but I expect that in their list of values “liberty” “freedom” “my rights” will be nearly equally if not more important than economic issues defined over welfare. I come from this Central European region, too, so I know all this reasoning, but as Charlie wrote, a better functioning democratic system will not obtain through speaking about these values but actively searching for how they can become reality.
Ad Kovach: I am fascinated by the suggestion that “Louis Kovach” might have lived in the US now already for 50 years. So he should be of the age of Odin? (Odin, I deeply apologise for that but you will see immediately why I wrote it.) Please compare the style of their English! I can’t help it, for me “Louis Kovach” is 25 and paid by Fidesz.
I not only understand what you are saying, I do agree with it. If the site promotes hate speech and it is indeed hosted in the US there is something that can be done to make the bandaid stick longer. If you wait (for any government) to apply it you might be waiting a long time. And that is where civic responsibilities start… and yes, there is a lacking of civic responsibility in Hungary and instead of indoctrinating religion maybe they could/should work on that.. and that would go a long way to getting rid of this hideous site
@LwiiH Domains by proxy only hides the name of the person or entity who registered the domain. I use it too. All they know is that it was registered by very likely, the devil himself, Bela Varga. You still won’t know who is hosting the site.
CloudFlare is somehow the same. They know where the kuruc.info is hosted but they won’t tell you. I showed them the blood money pages, explained it, and they still told me it’s “Bad taste. It’s OK.”.
There are more technical magic that can be applied to further obfuscate the info about the location of the sites. I’m afraid that this is a dead end. Even if we find out they will move quickly to another. The only solution is rounding up the people who create the content. That will disable it for a while until they move the editors abroad.
“some1” -None of us gets paid to “find a solution”. THat is what the government is getting paid for. We point out the problem, and bring it up, our nazi friends prove that the problem exist, the government denies it exist, and life goes on. Fortunately to bring attention to the problem is something that Eva can do, and she is doing a good job. THis is more than most well paid government official do. If you have some suggestions, you can put it down here, and lets hope that Orban does not play the “three monkeys” no more, and takes it to heart. (I assure you that even if Orban personally does not read the blog, there are some paid employees from the government who do. Hi paid employee out there!!)
Some1 – Frankly, my social conscience is clear. I had come up with a brilliant (if I may say so) idea re: fundraising at the time of the Read Mud Disaster( the next day on this blog)…..and yes, you are right, someone else must have got paid for my brain storming!
As far as kurucinfo is concerned, I do not believe that shouting down the site is the solution but proving them wrong would be a more viable option. There are so many talented journalists out there, surely they could win over and convince a 100.000 per hour readers (re: Eva) of Kurucinfo?
latefor, My reply was specific answer for a specific comment. PLease, do not take it out of context. Not every situation requires only the government to act. Orban supposedly cannot do anything with the kuricinfo as he suggested to the Amrican government because the server is not in HUngary. A reader suggested that us (readers) try to stop the server to host kuricinfo. My take on it was that even if we would be succesfull in shutting done one server option kurucinfo would switch over to an other host in a matter of hours. The solution should come from the Hungarian government by the locating those who are responsible for publishing such material on the fisrt place. THey (and the police) gets paid for that, and it is very little then we readers can do other what Eva and we already are doing.
I am not sure how the Red Mud made it here, and I do not mean to be rude, but I do not belive anyone stole your idea for fundraising for the victims. THe Red Cross, and other organizations usually swing into action (thank goodness) in a matter of minutes, they just do not publish that “Hey we just had an idea. Why don’t we start collect money and other items for the victims?” Usually are at ground zero at matter of hours, they help right away, then start to publish about other efforts. I am a regular donor of Red Cross, Oxfam, and other organizations, so I hope my money made it ther sooner before anyone suggested to fundraise for that specific disaster. My only “specific” donaion ever was to help the victims of Dec 26th Tsunami.
Kirsten: ” I can’t help it, for me “Louis Kovach” is 25 and paid by Fidesz.”
Please let me know, where can I collect, extra funds are always welcome!
Kovach: “You denigrate everybody who disagrees with you and call them “Jobbik” lackeys or fascists.”
I would like to see just one example for that assertion
Dr Balogh, time to take memory enhancing pills. See your July 4 posting # 22 :Louis Kovach :
No, I am NOT a FIDESZ supporter!
I’m afraid you can’t even read. Am I calling your here a Jobbik lackey or fascist? This is an interrogative not an affirmative sentence. I’m simply asking.
Kovach, you are pathetic. By reading your posts everybody here is 120% convinced that you ARE a FIDESZ true believer and your sneaky, anti-semitism also suggests strong JOBBIK sympathy. You can deny it but based on what you write, you are a very close match buddy.
But many times your comments simply don’t make sense. The main guiding principle seems to be some kind of agenda against professor Balogh. If she would write about the sunny weather you would google up something about thunderstorms that also happened in Israel. You are what you write – don’t kid yourself.
Some 1 – I believe that I have made myself abundantly clear re: Red Mud Disaster. I have answered your suggestion why I do not want to get involved into problem solving brain storming, and I find your comments rude and dismissive.
Just for the record: My suggestion was for a “specific disaster”, to reach as many people as possible at a shortest possible time. My idea was (on this blog) that every online newspaper should display (at the top right hand corner)he major fund-raisers: banks, Red Cross, Churches and the Priests etc. direct account numbers, addresses etc. to give readers (outside Hungary) the choice to donate directly to a “specific disaster”……and this is EXACTLY what they did…..and IT WORKED!
By jailing those who are responsible for the articles would not solve the problem, only proving them wrong would…..and the sooner the better!
latefor: “By jailing those who are responsible for the articles would not solve the problem, only proving them wrong would…..and the sooner the better!”
How do you propose doing that?
gdfxx – “How do you propose doing that?”
There is a saying: “Once burnt twice shy”!
Obviously, what you are doing solving the problem of anti-Semitism is NOT working. Time for a different approach.
Dr Balogh: “I’m afraid you can’t even read. Am I calling your here a Jobbik lackey or fascist? ”
I can read you very well Dr Balogh!
So, what’s the answer to my question?
This guy sounds like lieutenant Dub, although he is less funny…
gdfxx – “So, what’s the answer to my question?”
“There is a saying: “Once burnt twice shy”!
Obviously, what you are doing solving the problem of anti-Semitism is NOT working. Time for a different approach.” …….is the answer to your question.
I am not sure wghat part was rude and dismissive. Honest. I am simply saying that it i Orban that can do something, and I do not agree with you or with others who believe that it is the average Joe who can solve this problem by reporting kuricinfo’s hate agenda to a particular server’s host as they would simply move on an other server. THe solution is with the governement.
I am sorry to say that not everyone read Eva’s blog, so the links to donation sites did not start to appear because you posted this on Eva’s blog. I agree that some people may thought of it after reading your entry, but taking full credit for it is a ‘bit overdoing.
I appreciate your passion and conviction to such cause as I feel the same about humanitarian issues. I did not mean to offend yoe, but I just do not agree. I am not sure how to coat my opinion that is differnt from yours so it would not offend you. I do 100% agree with your motivation and the sentiment, but I dnot agree with how you think moving about it. Sorry if that is offensive.
Well as you said you are not a Fidesz supporter. You absolutely not MSZP or LMP supporter, as you support Horthy, and nazi writers, you speak up for criminals (except if they were communists). You have some murky nationalistic stance on true Hungarians, and you never really finished your answers regarding that subject.
I am sorry but that lives us believe that you support the theories of Jobbik or something slightly less or worse. Maybe Eva asked you, but most of us do not need to ask that question no more.
I don’t understand a single word of what you’re saying.
Do you want to continue the chat with Bela Varga to see if you can convince him?
Well, this is not an answer. If you have an idea of a different approach, describe it, please. That would be an answer.
By the way, I doubt that the problem of antisemitism can be solved by any blog. It requires education of the population starting in school, to try to eradicate the various levels of antisemitism children are indoctrinated into by their parents. This blog’s author and most of its contributors are just decrying what the present government is doing to deepen the existing antisemitism instead of combating it.
Some1 said:” I am sorry to say that not everyone read Eva’s blog, so the links to donation sites did not start to appear because you posted this on Eva’s blog. I agree that some people may thought of it after reading your entry, but taking full credit for it is a ‘bit overdoing.”
Had my personal motivation been “taking full credit” for the idea than I would have said something two years ago, BUT I did not. (Believe it or not, this is how an “average Joe” thinks, to my great misfortune, I might add).My comment re: the Red Mud Disaster was NOT ego driven.
Re: kurucinfo – In my experience, the “average Hungarian Christian Joe” is sick of being called an anti-Semite and the “average Hungarian Jewish Joe “is also had it with being called an anti-Hungarian. If both sides will go on name calling, there will be no solution to this problem. If you don’t agree with me (although I’ll be surprised) I will except it…and life goes on…..after all, we had a good chat!
Mutt Damon said:
“I don’t understand a single word of what you’re saying.
Do you want to continue the chat with Bela Varga to see if you can convince him?”
No, I do not want you to chat with Bela Varga, but I would seriously start chatting with the 100.000 readers per hour of kurucinfo.
Apparently commentators on Eva’s blog are said to be disgusting according to “Magyar” over at
Whenever I read his/hers comments, my stomach turns and couldn’t believe the things that came out from this seemingly educated person. Yet, to him/her we are the extremists.
Am I living in a crazy planet?
“Maygar! (I call him like this because he’s not worth being called a magyar …) is a clear-cut Nazi, so you should ignore him totally – unless you’re in a good mood and want to have a look into some abyss.
Sometimes I like to make fun of him so I’ve been called a Mischling and he answers me “Put back on your yellow star” – of course he doesn’t understand that I would be proud to have some Jewish (or Hungarian, Italian, whatever) roots …
These crazy rantings (and he’s not the only Nazi there: HHxx, Géza and others are of the same ilk) can only be understood from a psychiatrist’s viewpoint I think.
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