I wanted to write about the national holiday, August 20, St. Stephen’s Day, but something else came up. Another incident of Gypsy-baiting. This time in Cegléd, a town not far from Kecskemét and Szolnok, about 70 km south of Budapest. It has a population of 38,000 with a fairly large Roma population that lives on the outskirts of the town.
The neo-Nazis have provoked two incidents within one month. The first took place in Devecser in Transdanubia, the site of the red sludge disaster two years ago. There two neighbors got into a fairly violent argument–neither side was exactly innocent–that prompted Jobbik to organize a demonstration against “Gypsy crime” that ended up being not at all peaceful. During the demonstration rocks were thrown at the houses of the Roma families while one of the “warriors” with singularly bad aim hurled a rock right at one of the onlooking Jobbik MPs.
This so-called demonstration was hardly over when a new incident took place. The first report I found about it was in kuruc.info: “Spontaneous demonstration in Cegléd against Gypsy crime.” The article claims that the “locals got fed up with the looting of the Gypsies and with the police that refuse to do anything against them.” According to the report, the population was outraged and “the people of Cegléd asked the New Hungarian Guard” to come to their rescue. (As you may recall, the Hungarian Guard was banned but then came the New Hungarian Guard, so everything goes on as before.) Late at night, the report continues, “one cannot see Gypsies anywhere but there are many police cars on the streets.” As it turned out, the police were not on the streets to shield the defenseless non-Roma population of Cegléd from the Gypsies but rather to defend the Gypsies from “the units of the New Hungarian Guard that remained in town.”
But that wasn’t the end of the story. According to Szent Korona Rádió, on August 17 “the patriots [members of the New Hungarian Guard and other riff-raff] were trying to approach the houses of the Gypsies but the police stopped them.” A few football fans from the Újpest-Ferencváros match came to join the members of the New Hungarian Guard, the HVIM, and the Gendarmerie, another neo-Nazi group. The ones who remained in Budapest managed to ruin a few buses and streetcars after the game.
A day later the story got fancier. According to news published on hunhir.info, local members of the Szebb Jövőért Polgárőrök Egyesülete (Militia for a Better Future) were having an innocent picnic when they were attacked by armed Gypsies. Moreover, these Gypsies also turned on the police. Therefore SZJPE “ordered nationwide mobilization.”
Now let’s see how the police saw the same events. They reported that extremist groups had arrived in the city and practically occupied a part of the town where a lot of Roma lived. The police estimated that there were at least 500 extremists in town and that overnight on August 19 three Jobbik members of parliament also appeared on the scene. There was fear in the town, and the streets were empty with the exception of the Roma-inhabited section of town where Gypsies were waiting for the approaching extremists coming toward their houses through an open field.
What caused this upheaval? According to the police, Saturday night a caller reported that a group of people, maybe 20 or 30 in number, were behaving in a threatening manner while also disturbing the peace. By the time the police arrived there was no one to be found. There was either such an incident or not. Hard to tell. But the Fidesz mayor of Cegléd claimed that the “cause” was artificially exaggerated by the extremists so they could have an opportunity to stage another threatening demonstration against the Gypsies. The mayor also revealed that about three weeks ago there was a rumor that he wanted to move forty Roma families into a mixed Roma/non-Roma section of town. He figures that perhaps that rumor sparked consternation among some people in town. Also just last Sunday the town opened a park that is supposed to symbolize “Hungarian-Roma cooperation” and perhaps the cross that was erected there might not be to the liking of the town’s Jobbik contingent. One thing is sure, claimed the mayor: the fact that three Jobbik MPs immediately showed up indicated that Jobbik was behind the whole ugly affair. The mayor was also convinced that the attack on the Cegléd Roma population was timed to coincide with the national holiday.
As it turns out, there are no great problems with the Roma population of Cegléd. According to the mayor, there are occasional problems with some members of about twenty families but nothing that the local police and the local government cannot handle. Most likely the neo-Nazis are just waiting for a telephone call from someone who reports “Gypsy crime” in his or her locality. That is enough to scout out the place and begin recruitment.
Somehow the Hungarian authorities have to put an end to these organized gangs and their anti-Roma attacks. If they don’t, these incidents will only multiply and get uglier and uglier.
These atrocities are happening more often, without the police making any effort to arrest the nazi hoodlums. Therefore, these threats, the hooliganism, racism, anti-Semitic views, the hatred against the roma are encouraged by the Fidesz/KDNP/Jobbik Government. Proof of this is the New Theatre, run by Dörner, which is going to play an anti-semitic play by Csurka a die hard nazi politician and a lousy playwright, who hated jews with a vengeance.
These few thousand ultra-right wing nazis and the Fidesz/KDNP/Jobbik, a thieving, lying, cheating bunch of criminals run the country and isolated it from the civilized part of Europe. The Fidesz/KDNP/Jobbik wants to OPEN TO THE EAST, trying to find friends in Iran, the Arab countries, Syria, Lebanon, Kazahstan, Mongolia, etc., because nobody wants to see them in the Western countries and even China took a dump on them! I gues all there is left for the stupid viktor/matolcs duó is money laundering of Iran’s money. This is how low these people are in the Fidesz. The handicapped, the ill, the elderly, the poor is excluded from social benefits, because the new “constitution” does not require the Government to provide social benefits at all, benefit are only discretionary. The roma is now even further down the scale, they are not even considered human beings, by a large number of people and the Government. Hungary became an isolated, primitive, banana dictatorship.
Interesting, that the Hungarian state attorney and the police can’t find out who is inciting in kuruc info in Hungary.
Could it be, that Fidesz considers Jobbik as an eventual coalition partner in 2014?
Karl, it is obvious, since the Fidesz lost half of its voters they need the Jobbik sympatizers (but not necessarily Jobbik voters) in 2014. Besides, the little viktor dictator and most Fidesz members are anti-semitic and in general, also it is difficult to find people in Hungary, who do not hate the gypsies. I have been saying it for years, that as soon as the gypsy population reaches 12-14% critical mass and the economic situation gets bad, the rightists will instigate and there could be very serious riots, because Hungarians don’t give a damn and cannot relate to our Civil Right movement and integration. This is just the beginning, as it was in the very early 60’s in the USA. I lived through a large portion of the Civil Rights movement years and I am happy with our progress in the integration in the USA. However, stubborn and primitive people and these nazis are that, don’t learn from other people’s mistakes and successes, they just keep on making the same mistakes, now they want the old imagined glory of Horthy and Szálasi.
“…without the police making any effort to arrest..”
While watching the report of unrest after the Fradi/Ujpest game, it occurred to me that the reporter
did not mention any arrests. Could that be? Destruction of government property and no arrests?
Or, a skinhead kicks a police dog in the head and is not arrested? The Hungarian Guard is outlawed but when they appear as the New Hungarian Guard it is ok?
What on earth is the message being sent out about respect for law and order?
This is the systematic destruction of a society…
By the way, the digging around the parliament…?
It’s not a parking lot–it’s the excavation of the lowest
circle of Hell reserved for Orban and his ilk.
Perusing other Hungarian websites it appears that the cooperation of the FIDESZ mayor and the police resulted in fast action before anything developed. As a matter of fact, the police could not find the large number of out-of towners that were claimed to be there. It was the FIDESZ mayor who was in charge and by taking immediate action handled the case rather well.
gybognarjr; May I ask what was the actual atrocity that was committed in Cegled?
Exactly! After all the little mini-mussolini said, that Hungarians are half-asian, they only understand force and if God helps a little he may not have to suspend the democracy completely and tell people what they got, which is a primitive banana dictatorship! The new “constitution joke” allows the prime-minister to declare “special circumstances” or special state and suspend civil rights, declare martial law. My guess is, that when the situation gets even more unbearable, the victor will clamp down severely, but his own police, the TEK is not strong enough and the city police had been dismantled and demoralized. This is vacation season and few people work in the government, to make serious decisions, which have to be approved by the viktor himself. Hungary became a lawless, demoralized, self destructive mini dictatorship, isolated in the middle of Europe.
You must have read it wrong or the wrong website. It was the police that talked about 400-500 guardists.
I am aware of the fact, that the gypsies get no fair treatment, the hatred against them is general, so any story that involves gypsies are always explained and the “pure Hungarians” are just as innocent as Nyírő József was in 1940-45 and Albert & Endre Wass, after all the four people who were killed by the order of the Wass brothers were “only” Romanians and Jews.
NO, IT IS NOT RIGHT FOR HUNDREDS OF PEOPLE TO THREATEN, TO FORCE PEOPLE TO LEAVE THEIR HOME, BECAUSE OF FEAR, YES, EVEN IF THEY ARE “ONLY” GYPSIES! IT IS AN ATROCITY AND THERE WILL BE MORE FOR LACK OF ACTION BY THE DICTATORSHIP OF THE LITTLE VIKTOR AND THE FIDESZ/KDNP/JOBBIK GOVERNMENT!
Quote: “Hétfő hajnalban az MTI-nek eljuttatott állásfoglalásukban azt írták: a cigány családok egy része rokonaihoz menekült és retteg. “Úgy véljük, e tarthatatlan és minden jogi normának ellentmondó helyzet kialakulásában felelőssége van annak, az állam nevében eljáró politikának és rendőri vezetésnek, amely a hasonló szélsőjobboldali cselekményeket eltűrte, tétlenségével bátorította” – írták.”
Dr Balogh: “You must have read it wrong or the wrong website. It was the police that talked about 400-500 guardists.”
Dr Balogh, even your Nepszava cites Foldi as:
“Földi László polgármester hétfő délelőtt – a városi ünnepségre igyekezve – azt mondta: tudomása szerint a Puttony és a Kékkő utca környékén jelenleg 50-60 ember gyülekezik.”
The Cegled police reported: “Ceglédi Rendőrkapitányság ügyeletére arról, hogy egy 20-30 főből álló csoport Cegléd belterületén, hangoskodással, félelemkeltő módon zavarja a helyiek nyugalmát”
Apparently the numbers grow to 400 as they approach the headline, and you trump it to 400-500….. but there is no harm in reading the actual article, even if it is Nepszava…..before you report thousands……
Please, don’t lie. I hate liars. I never said anything about thousands. I mentioned 400-500 people because these were the numbers mentioned most often. As for the latest reporting of of 50-60 people is about Monday morning and not the day before and overnight.
Ah Louis, Louis..you are a card.
So, you believe in police reports do you? What about that lawyer who was assaulted in the courthouse and the police determined
that ‘he took sick’ and went home? Nice report there.
What about the report on Csatary? We’re still waiting on that one inspite of the fact that a conviction against him has turned up in Hungary itself. (Don’t ask me how Csatary was able to get back
in the country when he was on the run from Canada…). Some
sterling police work there, too. Apparently, Csatary had one of those magic Hungarian passports that don’t have to be renewed
for forty years.
No more demonstrations against Csatary, you say? Oh, that
must be because the police acted against those internet threats
against the demonstrators. Yes, they told kuruc to back off.
Ahh, the police. There were 3,000 young at the Balkan nightclub
but the district police…saw no evil…heard no evil….etc.
Kovach, are you saying that MTI is falsifying the news and the number was way less than 400? Yes or no please …
Just how many prowling toughs are allowed to threaten exactly how many people?
What number of atrocities should be accepted, according to you?
Are you suggesting, that if the number of participants isn’t precisely published, there wasn’t even any atrocity?
Why do I feel like someone already working on to “replace democracy with another type of political system”…?
Any answer, dear Luis?
once again why does anybody even read, let alone answer, our village idiot’s comments.
i also live here. Funny enough in, pardon me, cegled. I have been robbed by those maggots you defend. They are neither Roma or gypsy. They are scum that have been booted out from their own territory. Do not support these bloodsuckers.
You say they are not Roma or gypsy who robbed you. Can you tell us who are they then? I am just not sure what are you trying to say.
When you say “maggots who you defend”, who are you referring to? Are you referring to Louis who tries to defend the actions of rebooted Hungarian Guard, or you referring to Eva, who tried to defend the right of gypsies to peaceful life?
I do know that there are a few gypsy criminals out there, and they should be arrested and thrown to jail. There are also many true Hungarians who are criminals but I do not see the Jobbik to go and trying to terrorize them (even though those criminals are responsible for the death of innocent children, not only robberies.)
Just to set things straight about how many members of neo-Nazi groups showed up in Cegléd.
From Népszava in the original: “A Szebb Jövőért Polgárőr Egyesület és az Új Magyar Gárda tagjai hétfőre ígérték a vasárnap esti, mintegy 400 ember részvételével a város romák lakta házainak közelében tartott erődemonstrációjuk folytatását. Információink szerint hétfőn napközben körülbelül 50 egyenruhás gárdista tartózkodott a területen, estére pedig a helyiek újabb rendzavarásra számítottak.”
Thus, Sunday night there were 400 of them but by Monday only 50 could be found in the city.
Someone who is so proud of his knowledge of history should at least be careful about the facts. He should read what he sees and not what he wishes to see
It is a shame that the gypsies are hated everywhere without reason.
Canada expelled them, so did the socialist and right gvmnt of France and the right wing gvmnt of Italy, and the left (?) gvmnt of the UK. Even the US authorities use the infamous expression: “gypsy crime”
I hope the world will realize that there is no fundamental difference between gypsy culture and the culture of the others and stop discriminating them! I don’t really understand why the ombudsman of ethnic minorities of these countries did not raise his/her voice in these cases! We need a PM who dares to say loudly: there is no “useless life” here, everyone is worth the same, regardless the small differences in the culture!
Hungary’s government on Thursday responded to a letter by Amnesty International critical of the authorities’ responses to the intimidation of minorities and ethnic groups, underlining its commitment to “protecting its citizens, regardless of ethnic, cultural or social identity”.
The statement by the Prime Minister’s Office said that the government “does not tolerate any kind of intimidation of minorities and ethnic groups.”
So, what’s the problem:)
Those of you who know Hungarian, take a look at this HVG video and compare the two main speakers’ attitude. http://hvg.hu/itthon/20120820_Cegled_Gyilkossagra_hazfelgyujtasra_szami#
I live here also.. and just about 3 weeks ago my god-son’s brother got beaten (might have been to death if the police hadn’t a just happen by) by a gang of 7 Roma (3 of which are now in jail). So who am I angry at? The Roma in my neighbourhood? As far as I can tell my neighbours are decent people who wouldn’t think of engaging in this type of violence. That said, if you setup a conditions of them and us, you should tribal behaviours and violence is but one of those behaviours. So, you can throw the gang in jail which I’m not going to argue against but if you want this type of violence to stop, you have to some how have to promote integration. Having gangs of thugs descend on neighbourhoods is mob justice. Are you advocating mob justice? So, should I go gather up a bunch of guys and head over to the east end of town and beat up some Roma because some Roma beat up a friend? Is this the world you’re advocating we live in?
Martin: The little primed MINIster forgot to insert a sentence or two in his reply.
“protecting its citizens, regardless of ethnic, cultural or social identity”. As we know, gypsies have no identity, they remained wanderers for hundreds of years, so they are an exception which proves our point. As to the jews, well we can’t put a policeman next to each, we can do it in only the Parliament, and I am proud to say we have more policemen there then all the representatives put together, not just the two thirds majority.
Dr Balogh: “From Népszava in the original: “A Szebb Jövőért Polgárőr Egyesület és az Új Magyar Gárda tagjai hétfőre ígérték a vasárnap esti, mintegy 400 ember részvételével a város romák lakta házainak közelében tartott erődemonstrációjuk folytatását”
Maybe you have difficulty with Hungarian. “Igertek” does not mean that they were there. All extremist outfits feel that they threaten by promising far more than they can deliver. However, under no circumstances can an “igert” (promised) number of demonstrators be equated with those who were actually present. Additionally you increase the “estimated” Nepszava number from 400 to 500. Thus if anybody was lying….I just draw this to the readers attention by saying that before you increase the number to the thousands you should collect the actual information.
Honest to goodness, you can’t read. “They promised for Monday the continuation of the Sunday night demonstration that was attended by 400 people.”
I really think by now that there is something wrong with you.
Dr Balogh: Presumably you read the hvg also and had seen their report which claims that rightwing demonstrator numbers were greatly inflated. Or do you in fact believe the Szent Korona and kuruc infos greatly inflated bragging? I did not think those forums are so effective in influencing your writings, but now I stand corrected.
“A hvg.hu más, helyszíni forrásból úgy értesült, hogy a különféle szélsőjobboldali tüntetők a meghirdetett “országos mozgósítás” ellenére nem lehettek többen körülbelül 120 főnél. Forrásunk szerint a szélsőjobboldali csoportok számáról és az atrocitásokról terjedő rémhírekhez képest a helyzet kevésbé volt durva.
A Pest Megyei Rendőr-főkapitányság (PMRFK) korábban közölte, hogy Cegléden és környékén fokozott rendőri jelenlét lesz a hosszú hétvégén, miután szombat este bejelentés érkezett a Ceglédi Rendőrkapitányság ügyeletére arról, hogy egy 20-30 főből álló csoport Cegléd belterületén, hangoskodással, félelemkeltő módon zavarja a helyiek nyugalmát. A bejelentést követően néhány percen belül megérkeztek a helyszínre a rendőrök, de már nem találták ott a bejelentésekben szereplő csoport tagjait. Az eddigi adatok szerint további atrocitás nem történt.”
Mutt: “Kovach, are you saying that MTI is falsifying the news and the number was way less than 400? Yes or no please …”
In this case they were trying to be as sensationalist as Dr Balogh and in your terms equally “falsifying” the news. Maybe they used the same sources (Szent Korona and kuruc). I prefer the hvg info in validity.
Louis Kovach…. you may want to read that Hungarian sentence again before accuse anybody of having difficulties with Hungarian.
“hétfőre ígérték a vasárnap esti, mintegy 400 ember részvételével a város romák lakta házainak közelében tartott erődemonstrációjuk folytatását”
Meaning they promised to continue the demonstration on Monday that drew 400 people on Sunday. The phrase “with the participation of 400 people” is part of the long adjective phrase that describes the Sunday demonstration. Yes, it’s a long and cumbersome sentence, but Eva read it right.
So according to Nepszava, there were 400 people on Sunday.
Why is this important, by the way?
Louis, Louis…you believe the police?
First off, it sounds to me like coordination between the police and jobbik/garda boys; that is, the police inform them when they will
arrive on the scene. Shouldn’t be a surprise, really. After all,
there’s been absolutely no attempt to restrain the actions of right-wing/jobbik/garda elements in this country for quite a while.
But I must say, the government is creating a powder-keg…which may be just what they’re after if they seek to have an excuse to
cancel the next elections…
Happy Holiday! August 20th!
To several folks:
The number is important because larger numbers give more credibility to the ultra right. Somebody in this case started the “it is estimated 400″. This was picked up in some csaes credited to the MTI on most cases uncredited in numerous other newspapers and blogs. Naturally several ultra right blogs also (as did Dr Balogh” further inflated the number.
Yes, in this case, I believe the mayor and the several police sources who reported the lowewr numbers , also confirmed by hvg. I do not believe that it is in the interest of democracy to credit more power to the ultraright than they actually have. They may threaten or “promise” 400 of their own being present, but in this case they again failed in delivering thier hopes.
Dr Balogh: “It was the police that talked about 400-500 guardists.”
Please cite the source!
Louis Kovach: The numbers are important? Yes, even one of those nazi bastards is too many! You go out and count them next time and report back the exact numbers.
Unfortunately, many noble Hungarians carry a foggy material over their eyes.
All of them enhoy the great Hungarians, the writers, and actors, but can not grasp the criminality of the Horthys, prohaszkas, szalasis, orbans, vonas, morvais.
They would quietly honor these criminals, just because they voice patriotic slogans.
This is not limited to Hungarians, but it hurts to see the manifestation of this blindness in our nation that has suffered so much.
They fail us, just as their parents and teachers failed them.
Sad to see so many educated people searching for the truth but apparently provoking each other into venomous personal attacks on each other. Sadder than there being a lot of participants at this event (or not knowing how many there were).
May I suggest that innocent error is presumed before bad intention, tolerance is shown not only of misinterpretation of hungarian language sources but of english misused as a second language, respect of everyone is shown (even if they appear not to deserve it), personal attack is a final resort and light-handed, and (while I’m at it) nationalist tone is ?
So boring to read otherwise ….
“A jest [i.e. light humour] breaks no bones.” Samuel Johnson
“Csoda Kegy” may try to prove that he/she can see the events of the present and past clearly.
Tolerance is a shackle in the fight of the intolerance.
Our problem is the Veil of Ignorance, by Harsanyi, a curse on Hungary and the rest of the world.
Rettegő Iván: Én fordírtottam le az interview-t magyarra, Jason Kenney-vel (Miniszter – Immigráció és Multi-Kulturalitás), ma jobban ismerem a kanadai bevándorlási törvényeket, mint a sajátunkat. Kanadában nem hülyék az emberek a kormányban, felismerték törvényeiknek kihasználását. Az új törvényeknek semmi köze cigány gyűlölethez. Arról van szó, hogy aki idáig menedékjogot kért az azonnal megkapott teljes 100%-os szociális ellátást, sokkal többet, mint egy kanadai állampolgár. Mivel a kihallgatások akár két év után jöttek sorra, a cigányok ott tartózkodása nem csak rengeteg adópénzt emészt fel, de a kanadai polgárra nézve sem méltányos. Ezentúl nem kapnak szociális ellátást három hónapig, és a kihallgatásokat is szeretnék három hónapon belül elvégezni.
gybognarjr, this is interesting. Can you post it again in English, please?
Rettegő Iván: I was the one, who translated the interview with Mr. Jason Kenney, Minister of Immigration and Multi-Culturalism in Ottawa, Canada. Therefore at this time, I have more knowledge about the Canadian Immigration Laws, than our own here in the USA. The Canadian Government employees are not stupid. They realized, that anyone who asks for political asylum in Canada, receives work permits and full 100% benefits, even full medical benefits, including eye and dental care, Government subsidized housing and large family children subsidy, etc., which Canadian citizens don’t get.
Because the wait for the immigration hearings could take up to two years, (and 98.9% of the gypsies either does not show up or they withdraw the application) this is a heavy burden on the canadian taxpayers. The new laws will shorten the waiting to three months and the newly arriving prospective immigrants will not get work permit and the social benefits for three months. Therefore, it was not gypsy hatred, which motivated the Canadian Government to change the Immigration laws, but rather the fairness to its own citizens and to be fair to all, lawfully admitted immigrants.
I am from the US. I am not quite sure as to the nationality of most of the people who answer on here, but if I seem a foreigner, I hope you will allow me to say something and perhaps devote a bit of thinking to my statement.
I do not know you, you are likely thousands of miles away from me as I type. I will have to believe you were robbed by people, whose ethnicity I think I understand to be Roma.
While it is harder to think like this when you have been taken advantage of, I think that generalizing most things onto a group of people is just plain wrong. Not only morally, but usually wrong in fact. I would like to think I would feel like this even if I had been taken advantage of, but I cant be certain I suppose.
In the US, we also have some prejudices against groups. Thankfully now, they are rather benign. But I could also believe things that are said about blacks, hispanics, jews, or whoever. What I have found in my dealings with all groups are that there are good and bad. Smart and stupid.
I would never believe all members of any group are “scum”, etc. In the worst possible case, I would believe that most are “bad”, but it would likely be due to the environment they are in. Do Roma get opportunities for education and professional jobs? This is a whole other conversation, but I would hope that most would agree with what I have written.
Finally, I feel that mob rule, mob justice is just plain horrible. Let’s hope that one day you are not threatened by a mob.
Louis doesn’t lie: he tells ‘fibs’ in the Hungarian fashion.
For instance, on his Facebook entry he has put down, “lecturer–Harvard”.
Now, that’s not a complete lie but it is misleading at best. Louis took part in a symposium and gave a talk. Hence, in Louis’ interpretation of the world: LECTURER-HARVARD.
Petrovics: Sorry to inform you, but you are incorrect. I said before, that I am not hiding behind slimy aliases. The actual title is “Instructor in Environmental Health. Exposure, Epidemiology and Risk Program. Harvard School of Public Health” and I was there for about 25 years now. But if they had a sympsium on what is the epidemiology of petrovicses mental state, I might just attend that too although it would be very very short..
And which poem did you write?????
As long as we are discussing truthfulness, you can also ask Dr Balogh again that when did the police say 400-500 folks were in Cegled?
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