Home > Uncategorized > Karl Pfeifer: Péter Dániel and László Grespik

Karl Pfeifer: Péter Dániel and László Grespik

December 21, 2012

Péter Dániel is a Hungarian lawyer and civil rights activist. When in 2010 the new right wing government made the presentation of a declaration of national solidarity mandatory in every government office, Dániel pelted it with a deviled egg. When a similar law came into effect for the new constitution, he doused it with ketchup. And when a Horthy statue was erected this year in Western Hungary, Daniel poured red coloring over it.

Because of this Péter Dániel was expelled by the Budapest Chamber of Lawyers, a decision against which he appealed. Should the expulsion be upheld he won’t be able to practice as a lawyer anymore.

A respected member of the Chamber’s Executive Board dealing with Dániel’s case is the lawyer László Grespik who acted as defense attorney for a client charged with public sedition after performing in a Skinhead concert in February 1999 at the so-called “day of honor,” where he sang songs addressing the Jews as “scum of the earth, stinking dirty hoard, parasites living off our country! They got what they wanted, and are holding Hungary in their hands (…) They are the ones who are allowed to do anything, fight them, protect yourself!” And: “Run, run, stinking Jew, sooner or later you’ll turn into soap anyway.”

Grespik saw fit to insist that the judge dealing with the case of the singing Skinheads disclose “whether she regarded herself as Jewish or had Jewish ancestors, for if she had, she might be biased.”

The judge explained that she was “not obliged to answer the question”, but in view of the special nature of the case, to avoid any further complications, was ready to state: “I am not biased and not a Jew, and have, to the best of my knowledge, no Jewish ancestors.”

Let me quote Primo Levi: “It is not easy and not pleasant to confront this outrage, but I believe we must face it, because whatever could happen yesterday may happen again tomorrow, perhaps to us or to our children.”

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  1. SA2
    December 21, 2012 at 7:23 pm | #1

    Unfortunate nation. Let us honor the decent Hungarians, and there are so many.

    Who are the few, who destroy the honor of Hungary?

    The ordinary people are so afraid to stand up against the V. Orban destruction.

    Viktor Orbán – Rombolás! Viktor Orbán Hagyd Abba A Rombolást!

    We have to send Petofi1 on the street to find out the reason for their failure.

    2nd Amendment needed? Should we put guns into the hand of every Hungarian?

  2. Karl Pfeifer
    December 22, 2012 at 11:41 am | #2

    No guns. No violence. The students show how to fight for democracy.

  3. SA2
    December 22, 2012 at 4:49 pm | #3

    The students will restore the honor of the Hungarian people. Let us congratulate and support them.

    They should call themselves the daughters of sons of Ferenc Deak, who never had children, but wrote wonderful messages to his relatives.

    The guns have no place here. The students must aim at building an honest, violence free Hungarian future.

    They should also listen to Karl Pfeifer, our hero.

  4. Walker Texas
    December 27, 2012 at 4:32 pm | #4

    Horthy has a jewish wife. As a young man, Horthy traveled around the world and served as a diplomat for the Austro-Hungarian Empire in Turkey and other countries. Horthy married with Magdolna Purgly in Arad in 1901. The Purgly family (Originally: Wodianer family) was of Jewish origin. The Purgly family babtized and converted to Calvinism in the late 19th century.[4] They had four children: Magdolna (1902), Paula (1903), István (1904) and Miklós (1907).

  5. December 27, 2012 at 4:58 pm | #5

    Walker Texas, I’m afraid you are way off. Mrs. Horthy wasn’t Jewish and certainly wasn’t Calvinist, She was a bigot Catholic. Believe me, I’m a historian of this period.

  6. wolfi
    December 27, 2012 at 5:37 pm | #6

    Interesting, maybe ?

    The “Jewishness” of Mrs Horthy’s family was just edited into wikipedia 12/12/12):
    http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Magdolna_Purgly&diff=next&oldid=486962294

  7. You are not expert in Hungarian history
    December 29, 2012 at 9:03 am | #7

    BOOK: Raphael Patai:The Jews of
    Hungary: History, Culture, Psychology (page: 378)

    Are you member of a scietific academy in Hungary?

    According to your CV., you are not an expert in Hungarian History. You have just Hungarian litterateur degree. You learned history in canada. I can imagine how “difficult” was to get a historian degree and PHD in canada…

    Eva S. Balogh :
    Walker Texas, I’m afraid you are way off. Mrs. Horthy wasn’t Jewish and certainly wasn’t Calvinist, She was a bigot Catholic. Believe me, I’m a historian of this period.

  8. dvhr
    December 29, 2012 at 9:06 am | #8

    You are not expert in Hungarian history :
    BOOK: Raphael Patai:The Jews of
    Hungary: History, Culture, Psychology (page: 378)
    Are you member of a scietific academy in Hungary?
    According to your CV., you are not an expert in Hungarian History. You have just Hungarian litterateur degree. You learned history in canada. I can imagine how “difficult” was to get a historian degree and PHD in canada…

    Eva S. Balogh :
    Walker Texas, I’m afraid you are way off. Mrs. Horthy wasn’t Jewish and certainly wasn’t Calvinist, She was a bigot Catholic. Believe me, I’m a historian of this period.

    Do you see what source Patai give in his book? None.

  9. hard facts
    December 29, 2012 at 9:14 am | #9

    Wodianer is a Jewish name. See the home of the family: Purgli castle “Purgly kastély” identitcal with Wodianer castle “Wodianer kastély” Her family changed even their family name too…

    dvhr :

    You are not expert in Hungarian history :
    BOOK: Raphael Patai:The Jews of
    Hungary: History, Culture, Psychology (page: 378)
    Are you member of a scietific academy in Hungary?
    According to your CV., you are not an expert in Hungarian History. You have just Hungarian litterateur degree. You learned history in canada. I can imagine how “difficult” was to get a historian degree and PHD in canada…

    Eva S. Balogh :
    Walker Texas, I’m afraid you are way off. Mrs. Horthy wasn’t Jewish and certainly wasn’t Calvinist, She was a bigot Catholic. Believe me, I’m a historian of this period.

    Do you see what source Patai give in his book? None.

  10. MAgyar zsidó lexikon
    December 29, 2012 at 9:17 am | #10

    “Magyar zsidó lexikon” (Hungarian Jewish Encíclopedia) about Wodianer family.

    Országos Széchanyi könyvtár.

    http://mek.oszk.hu/04000/04093/html/szocikk/10409.htm

    Check mate!

  11. wolfi
    December 29, 2012 at 9:41 am | #11

    This is really strange/funny:

    All this seems to come from one source which is not native English, probably some Hungarian loonie.

    All the quotations make the same grammatical errors, “Horthy married with Magdolna …” eg

    Someone is trying to proof something ?

  12. MAgyar zsidó lexikon
    December 29, 2012 at 9:53 am | #12

    There is no need other proofs. Hungarian Jewish Encyclopedia is an encyclopedia which were edited by Jewish ethno-historians for Hungarian jews. Magyar Zsidó Lexikon (1929) “Hungarian Jewish Encyclopedia” at National Széchényi Library http://mek.oszk.hu/04000/04093/html/szocikk/10409.htm

    The other is an academic historian: Raphael Patai, well known Jewish expert on the field of the history of Hungarian Jewish people.

    Check mate!

  13. MAgyar zsidó lexikon
    December 29, 2012 at 9:56 am | #13

    Read about professor Patai: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raphael_Patai

  14. MAgyar zsidó lexikon
    December 29, 2012 at 9:59 am | #14

    Read about Encyclopedia Judaica:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encyclopaedia_Judaica

  15. Encyclopedia Judaica
    December 29, 2012 at 10:00 am | #15

    This is the SO CALLED CHECK MATE!!!!!!!

  16. dvhr
    December 29, 2012 at 10:25 am | #16

    Encyclopedia Judaica :
    This is the SO CALLED CHECK MATE!!!!!!!

    Are you familiar with the meaning of the word “source”?

  17. Some1
    December 29, 2012 at 10:41 am | #17

    I think it is time for Eva to remove the posts that are clearly serve the purpose of some right-wing stupidity (that I can’t figure out by the way, like: So what? or What difference does it make?) and makes it very hard to follow the new posts on various subjects, as seven posts in a row in a totally unrelated blah-blah-blah takes up almost half of the space form recent comments tab. If this person with some sort of learning disability can’t put each of his sentences on the same subject in one post, he should find an other forum. Then again, I think trolls should be eliminated once and for all in order to provide space for valid conversations.

  18. Encyclopedia Judaica
    December 29, 2012 at 10:50 am | #18

    DVHR, you lost the debate. You are similar to little children: you can’t lose debates in adult & gentleman’s own way :)))

    http://mek.oszk.hu/04000/04093/html/0098.html

  19. Encyclopedia Judaica
    December 29, 2012 at 10:52 am | #19

    Perhabs you know better the history of Hungarian Jews than the two professors (Raphael Patai, and Péter Újvári) Hahahahahaha

  20. Encyclopedia Judaica
    December 29, 2012 at 10:54 am | #20

    CHECK MATE

  21. One Objective Hungarian
    December 29, 2012 at 10:57 am | #21

    Leave the scary Magdolna Horthy alone. She was just another confused Hungarian.

    Let us concentrate on the Pfeifer question.

    Can a lawyer like László Grespik contribute to human decency?

    I doubt that he will support the basic rights of Péter Dániel.

    We should express our support for Péter Dániel. He has got a facebook page.

    https://www.facebook.com/peter.daniel.167

  22. December 29, 2012 at 12:07 pm | #22

    Yes, I think this ridiculous debate about Magdolna Purgly’s family tree should end. The trouble with these right-wingers that they are ignorant. For example, this particular genius thinks that if he finds Wodianer’s name among those Jews who received baronetcy from Franz Joseph it means that Magdolna Purgly was a converted Jew! It would be hilarious if it weren’t so sad. Thinking is obviously not his forte.

    Oh, yes, there were several Wodianers but they were never Purglys. The Purglys came from the minor nobility (jószáshelyi Purgly) with about 1,500 holds. 1 hold is approximately half a hectare. Her father János was an MP and her brother, Emil, was member of the upper house while the Wodianers remained Wodianers.

    As for people who received their degrees in Canada. Well, if I were you I would remain very, very quiet. Your ignorance speaks volumes of what kind of education you must have received. There is nothing to be proud of. I would be ashamed of myself in your place.

    By the way, what do you know about Canadian or American higher education? Most likely nothing. Put it that way, Hungarian universities simply cannot be compared to the best universities in the States and Canada.

  23. December 29, 2012 at 12:18 pm | #23

    dvhr :

    Encyclopedia Judaica :
    This is the SO CALLED CHECK MATE!!!!!!!

    Are you familiar with the meaning of the word “source”?

    As you may have noticed a lot of people in Hungary are unfamiliar with the concept: Schmitt and Semjén, for example. And who knows how many thousands altogether over the years.

  24. Encyclopedia Judaica
    December 29, 2012 at 12:34 pm | #24

    Eva S. Balogh :
    Yes, I think this ridiculous debate about Magdolna Purgly’s family tree should end. The trouble with these right-wingers that they are ignorant. For example, this particular genius thinks that if he finds Wodianer’s name among those Jews who received baronetcy from Franz Joseph it means that Magdolna Purgly was a converted Jew! It would be hilarious if it weren’t so sad. Thinking is obviously not his forte.
    Oh, yes, there were several Wodianers but they were never Purglys. The Purglys came from the minor nobility (jószáshelyi Purgly) with about 1,500 holds. 1 hold is approximately half a hectare. Her father János was an MP and her brother, Emil, was member of the upper house while the Wodianers remained Wodianers.
    As for people who received their degrees in Canada. Well, if I were you I would remain very, very quiet. Your ignorance speaks volumes of what kind of education you must have received. There is nothing to be proud of. I would be ashamed of myself in your place.
    By the way, what do you know about Canadian or American higher education? Most likely nothing. Put it that way, Hungarian universities simply cannot be compared to the best universities in the States and Canada.

    Wodianer family has jewish origin. Purgly family originally was from Wodianer family. Purgly was not from the baronial branch of Wodianer, because it was an other,-the luckier one- branch of the Wodainers who get the baronial title. Check mate Eva :)))

  25. ÁMÉRIKÁN JUNIVERZITÍ
    December 29, 2012 at 12:38 pm | #25

    Everybody knows that Canadian degrees (especially in art subjects like international literature, history, philosophy, linguistics) are not the stronghold of the universities of the New world (Canada US.) Perhaps you confused it with the american engineer trading and natural sciences, which have good reputation.

  26. ÁMÉRIKÁN JUNIVERZITÍ
    December 29, 2012 at 12:44 pm | #26

    I cited sources and references of professors and experts about the Jewish history of Hungary.

    Dear Éva you have not sources and references to prove your speculation.
    Therefore You lost the debate. Take the defeat easy, like an adult serious person.
    Only children can’t lose debates after the demonstration & documentation.

    Have a god night!

    CIAO! :)

  27. REBEKA KI A VÁRBÓL
    December 29, 2012 at 12:53 pm | #27

    a tárgykörben
    elmélyült vizsgálatokat végző,mocskos Szálasi banditák,
    anyai ágon találtak zsidó származásút,Purgly Magdolna
    családjában.Ezért meszelték a Sándor palota falára,hogy
    “REBEKA KI A VÁRBÓL”

  28. An
    December 29, 2012 at 1:50 pm | #28

    I don’t know which is more annoying about this latest contributor…. his ignorance or his aggressiveness.

  29. December 29, 2012 at 2:05 pm | #29

    Always the stupidest people start their posts like “everybody knows that …”. Very telling.

    This is one of the fly traps of the Orban regime: offering a glimpse on the feeling of being intelligent to “Semmilyen Zsolt” and his followers.

    So dear “contributor”! How does it feel to look smart? Enjoy it while it lasts. Christmas gift to you from the readers of this blog.

  30. Some1
    December 29, 2012 at 4:11 pm | #30

    REBEKA KI A VÁRBÓL :
    a tárgykörben
    elmélyült vizsgálatokat végző,mocskos Szálasi banditák,
    anyai ágon találtak zsidó származásút,Purgly Magdolna
    családjában.Ezért meszelték a Sándor palota falára,hogy
    “REBEKA KI A VÁRBÓL”

    Hey buddy, do you speak English?

  31. Some1
    December 29, 2012 at 4:13 pm | #31

    I wonder if the new contributor is one of the very intelligent Fidesz MPs or Orban himself? Based on the quality of his posts, he does have the same education quality as most of them.

  32. Some1
    December 29, 2012 at 4:19 pm | #32

    ÁMÉRIKÁN JUNIVERZITÍ :
    Everybody knows that Canadian degrees (especially in art subjects like international literature, history, philosophy, linguistics) are not the stronghold of the universities of the New world (Canada US.) Perhaps you confused it with the american engineer trading and natural sciences, which have good reputation.

    bahahaha Two of the top ten universities on philosophy are Canadian universities.
    http://tinyurl.com/d79ojde Are you for real? Facts,and quotes… you know those things that Fidesz people do not use.
    History, top 14, Englsh Language and Literature 7 and 14.
    Where did you study? In one of Orban’s soccer academy?

  33. Bowen
    December 29, 2012 at 4:27 pm | #33

    Why do the right-wing lunatics always feel the need to put smiley faces on their messages? :) :) etc.

  34. gdfxx
    December 29, 2012 at 5:03 pm | #34

    Frankly, although obviously I rather trust Eva’s research in this domain than some anonymous trolls’, I doubt that the subject of Horthy’s wife’s background is relevant. Horthy’s actions (and inactions) speak for themselves.

  35. Some1
    December 29, 2012 at 5:26 pm | #35

    gdfxx :
    Frankly, although obviously I rather trust Eva’s research in this domain than some anonymous trolls’, I doubt that the subject of Horthy’s wife’s background is relevant. Horthy’s actions (and inactions) speak for themselves.

    Amen!

  36. December 29, 2012 at 5:38 pm | #36

    gdfxx :

    Frankly, although obviously I rather trust Eva’s research in this domain than some anonymous trolls’, I doubt that the subject of Horthy’s wife’s background is relevant. Horthy’s actions (and inactions) speak for themselves.

    I totally agree.

  37. December 29, 2012 at 5:46 pm | #37

    There is something else I wanted to say about our latest troll. What is really amazing is this incredible superiority complex. Canadian universities? Learning history in Canada? It cannot be any good. What do those Canadians know?

    That reminded me of an old story from 1956. For a couple of days we ended up in a big refugee camp set up for us in Eisenstadt. We students lived in relative luxury and were housed in a separate building. There was a young Hungarian who had escaped earlier and lived in Austria and who was handling our affairs, including information about scholarships.

    I asked him whether they give out scholarships to Canada to which he answered; “we give scholarships only to civilized countries.”

  38. CharlieH
    December 29, 2012 at 7:02 pm | #38

    London Calling!

    Some1: “………..Horthy’s actions (and inactions) speak for themselves.”

    Many apologists for Horthy say he ‘reluctantly’ did what he did because he had no choice.

    One thing (at least) I have difficulty in reconciling with this is the fact that the Budapest fathers had no qualms about naming a prominent road junction in Budapest as ‘Hitler Körönd’.

    So much for being ‘reluctant’ partners to Hitler’s crimes.

    (The junction is now named ‘Kodály Körönd’ btw)

    Regards

    Charlie

  39. CharlieH
    December 29, 2012 at 7:05 pm | #39

    Sorry gdfxx It should have been attributed to you! – apologies.

  40. dvhr
    December 30, 2012 at 9:49 am | #40

    I find it telling that our contributor with many names edited the info on the alleged jewish connection of Mrs Horthy into the English article on Mrs Horthy but not into the Hungarian one.

  41. December 30, 2012 at 11:27 am | #41

    dvhr :

    I find it telling that our contributor with many names edited the info on the alleged Jewish connection of Mrs. Horthy into the English article on Mrs Horthy but not into the Hungarian one.

    I still don’t quite understand why the author of the information about Mrs. Horthy’s alleged Jewish origin gave the Hungarian Jewish Lexicon as a source. Especially the one article he copied out for us: a list of Jewish baronets of Hungary. Because if there is any connection between the Wodianers and Mrs. Horthy–as we will see later there isn’t–he could have made a better case if he turned to Fülöp Wodianer (1822-1899). Fülöp at least lived in Arad between 1849 and 1856.He owned a printing press and in 1897 he was ennobled with the title of “vásárhelyi” because he was born in Hódmezővásárhely. Mrs. Horthy’s mother was called Anna Vásárhelyi and I assume that the anti-Semites of the Arrowcross party tried to make the connection between the Wodianers and Mrs. Horthy this way. Claiming that the Wodiers changed their name to Purgly doesn’t make a lot of sense.

    The Vásárhelyis of Arad came an ancient Szekler family with the noble title of “kézdivásárhelyi.” So, Mrs. Horthy’s mother’s full name was “kézdivásárhelyi Vásárhelyi Ilona.” The family became prominent already in the thirteenth century. Different branches of the family were active in different parts of the country. The Vásárhelyis of Arad are one of them. Jonathan Vásárhelyi was active in the middle of the 18th century. His grandson, János, was lord lieutenant of Arad County in the 1830s. The information on the Vásárhelyis originally comes from Pallas Nagylexikon (available on line) and from Kislexikon: http://www.kislexikon.hu/vasarhelyi.html

    So, the family goes back a long way. I found two Vásárhelyis in Magyar politikai lexikon (magyar politikusok) 1914-1935, both from Arad. There was Dezső (born in 1871) who was most likely an uncle or a cousin of Mrs. Horthy (born 1881). and Sándor (1891), a younger cousin or some fairly close relative on her mother’s side. Both were members of parliament. Dezső became a member from 1906 on and Sándor in 1935. Both were supporter of the government party.

    One more thing about our anonymous “historian.” I found it amusing that in the English-language Wikipedia article he mention the Hungarian Jewish Lexicon but he thinks that it is available only in one copy in the Hungarian National Library. I can assure him that I have a copy of it right in front of me at this very moment. A very useful reference book, by the way.

  42. wolfi
    December 30, 2012 at 12:02 pm | #42

    @dvhr:

    I wanted to ask about that – now you’ve given the answer, thanks. So this story about Mrs Horthy being from a Jewish family is only in the English wiki, not in the Hungarian if I understand you correctly ?

  43. dvhr
    December 31, 2012 at 2:44 am | #43

    wolfi :
    @dvhr:
    I wanted to ask about that – now you’ve given the answer, thanks. So this story about Mrs Horthy being from a Jewish family is only in the English wiki, not in the Hungarian if I understand you correctly ?

    Right. A somewhat similar story is that an editor, “Szabo Tamas” , on January 20, 2011, added the false info to the Hungarian wikipedia, that Daniel Cohn-Bendit supported the Russian invasion of Czechoslovakia in 1968, but he refrained from claiming this on either the German or the English Wikipedia, though he was active in both.

    http://www.stop.hu/velemeny/ki-gyartja-a-nem-letezo-tortenelmet-cohn-bendit-es-a-pragai-tavasz/873693/

  44. January 2, 2013 at 10:15 am | #44

    “CHECK-MATE”‘S ANONYMOUS NONSENSE ON PURGLY PURGED FROM ENGLISH WIKIPEDIA

    “Check-Mate” seems to have been busy in December, anonymously adding silly synchronicities to English Wikipedia in shaky English (“babtized”) and then triumphantly trumpeting his canard under a variety of pseudonyms in familiarly inarticulate English here and in Politics.hu: http://www.politics.hu/20121228/constitutional-court-voids-voter-registration-legislation/

    (He has notably not ventured to favour Hungarian Wikipedia with his historiographic insights; he would presumably be less inarticulate there, but would run the risk of having his quackery quickly exposed by a better-informed readership.)

    Professor Balogh has since set the historic record straight above.

    So I’ve purged “Check-Mate”‘s Purgly prevarications from Mr. and Mrs. Horthy’s pages in English Wikipedia (though I don’t doubt that he and his mates will try to have another go under a variety of pseudonyms…)

  45. January 2, 2013 at 10:31 am | #45

    Walker Texas :
    Horthy has a jewish wife…

    “CHECK-MATE”‘S ANONYMOUS NONSENSE ON PURGLY PURGED FROM ENGLISH WIKIPEDIA

    “Check-Mate” seems to have been busy in December, anonymously adding silly synchronicities to English Wikipedia in shaky English (“babtized”) and then triumphantly trumpeting his canard under a variety of pseudonyms in familiarly inarticulate English here and in Politics.hu.

    (“He has notably not ventured to favour Hungarian Wikipedia with his historiographic hutzpah; he would presumably be less inarticulate there, but would risk having his quackery quickly exposed by a better-informed readership.)

    Professor Balogh has since set the historic record straight here in the Hungarian Spectrum.
    So I’ve purged “Check-Mate”‘s Purgly prevarications from Mr. and Mrs. Horthy’s pages in English Wikipedia (though I don’t doubt that he and his mates may now have a go at trying to revive them under a variety of pseudonyms…)

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