To fight for your country to your last breath: Is it a heroic act?

I think it is time to take a closer look at the historiography of the destruction of Hungary’s Second Army. I decided to stick with Jano’s helpful comment on what destruction in military terms means. By that definition the Second Army was destroyed.

Since yesterday the debate about the military and political aspects of this calamity has been going on, not only among commenters on Hungarian Spectrum. It is also a topic in the Hungarian media, on Facebook, and in private correspondence. The author of one of the e-mails I received found it disturbing that none of the official speeches and writings in connection with the commemoration mentions that Hungary was at the time an ally of Nazi Germany. The answer from the right was that anyone with “a modicum of education based on high school textbooks certainly knows that this was the case.” I wouldn’t be so sure. Often history classes don’t even get to World War II and, even if they do, the most popular twelfth-grade history textbook leaves a great deal to be desired as suitable material for the new generation of Hungarian democrats. But more about this particular textbook at some other time.

Here instead I would like to concentrate on how Hungarian historians treated the topic in the second half of the 1970s. I’m using the last volume of  The History of Hungary (Magyarország története, 1919-1945 [Budapest: Akadémiai kiadó, 1976]). I assume that this is the picture the historians Pál Fodor and Sándor Szakály want to change. This particular chapter of the book was written by the late Gyula Juhász, whose works on Hungarian foreign policy are still highly regarded. Gyula Juhász agrees with most of you that the Battle of Stalingrad was a turning point in the history of the war.

As for the military situation along the Don River. The Hungarians were in charge of a territory about 200 km wide. The soldiers arrived at the Russian front at different times. The first group fought alongside the Germans in the vicinity of Oryol and Kursk and immediately encountered a loss of 15-20% of their manpower. They moved the fighting toward Voronezh up to the Don River. The second and the third transport arrived in the area without any fighting but after more than a 1,000 km march. To their north there were German and to their south Italian soldiers. At the Don there were three bridgeheads in the hands of the Soviets that the Hungarians tried to occupy without success during the months of August-September 1942. During these battles the Hungarian forces lost about 30,000 fighting men. They were either dead or wounded. In addition, the Hungarians lost 40% of their artillery supply.

In addition, the Germans didn’t fulfill their promise to equip the Hungarians troops with heavy armament and anti-tank guns. Supplies of armaments, food, and clothing didn’t get to the troops. Moreover, there was not enough manpower to relieve the exhausted troops. Then, on December 27, Miklós Horthy forbade the troops to retreat. It was a request from Hitler which, it seems, Horthy didn’t hesitate to fulfill.

The January 12 and 14 attacks came as a total surprise to the Hungarian military leadership. The Soviets broke the Hungarian lines at two places. A German armored division nearby couldn’t come to the help of the Hungarians because the German leadership was concentrating on an orderly retreat of their own troops under the cover of the Hungarians. The resultant losses were staggering. Between January 12 and February 9 the Second Army was destroyed. Out of the 200,000 soldiers 40,000 died, 70,000 were wounded or became prisoners of war, and 80% of the equipment was lost.

So, in the second half of the 1970s Hungarian historiography found several reasons for the debacle. Poorly trained and equipped troops, a breach of the German promise of necessary equipment, and Horthy’s order to stand strong to the very end. You may have noticed that Miklós Horthy’s share of the blame for the fate of so many lives was not mentioned in the official communiqués and speeches.

Meanwhile the hyperbole on the heroism and patriotism of the Hungarian soldiers goes on. It wasn’t the political elite that was responsible for Hungary’s participation in the war against the Soviet Union; it was the “homeland”  (haza) that called for the soldiers’  sacrifice. A high-ranking Hungarian officer said farewell to the dead soldiers this way: “Sleep, soldiers of God!” a line from Gyula Somogyváry, who wrote second-rate poems about the brave soldiers of World War I. (Those Hungarian soldiers were victims and not God’s soldiers. They had to fight an unholy war.) The high-ranking officer in his speech proudly called attention to the “heroism” of the soldiers who kept fighting until “the last minute of the second world war.” As if they had any other choice. Moreover, the fact that Hungary fought to the bitter end alongside Hitler’s army is nothing to be proud of.

György C. Kálmán, a literary historian, tried to figure out the meaning of a sentence by Szabolcs Szita, the head of the Budapest Holocaust Memorial Center, who talked about the heroic stance of those who took part in the battles. At the same time he warned that “one must explore the losses with a sense of devotion.” Not surprisingly, Kálmán couldn’t make head nor tail of that sentence. Neither can I. Kálmán recalled an article he wrote thirteen years ago during the first Orbán government when there were signs already of a call for absolute devotion to the country, right or wrong.

What prompted Kálmán’s article was the statement of some high Catholic prelate who claimed that regardless of the circumstances we must consider all soldiers who gave their lives for the homeland heroes. So, it seems, Kálmán continued, in this view “there is no such thing as meaningless killing, needless bloodletting, murdering the innocent, soldiers recruited to become cannon-fodder. There is only the sacred cause, fatherland, homeland, heroism, devotion, patriotism, and self-sacrifice. German soldiers alongside Hungarian Arrow Cross men fought for Hungary and the Second Army fought for our beloved country at the Don. The sacrifice was not for naught.”

For these territories did the Hungarian government stood by Nazi Germany

For these territories the Hungarian government stood by Nazi Germany

And let me quote a passage from the minutes of a high-level meeting that took place on April 1, 1941 when the decision was made to allow the German army to move across Hungary to attack Yugoslavia. It was after that meeting that Pál Teleki committed suicide. László Bárdossy in his capacity as foreign minister said the following: “I want to warn everybody that in case of British-American victory Hungary would lose all its territories that it had managed to get back up to now and our position will be worse than it was at the time of Trianon.” This passage appeared in a high school textbook, part of a very long quotation that most likely the students simply skip. But surely this is a crucial sentence. Unfortunately, among the questions at the end of the chapter that are supposed to test the students’ understanding of the material there is nothing that would call their attention to it. Instead the textbook sends students to a historical atlas to follow the battles of 1942 and 1943. This way there is no hope for a more enlightened Hungarian society.

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39 comments

  1. György C. Kálmán is not a linguist, but a literary scholar (who had, incidentally, tried his hand in linguistics in his 20s or so). You must have confused him with László Kálmán, his brother, who indeed is a linguist.

  2. miohun :

    György C. Kálmán is not a linguist, but a literary scholar (who had, incidentally, tried his hand in linguistics in his 20s or so). You must have confused him with László Kálmán, his brother, who indeed is a linguist.

    You’re right about that but in this case it his professional background is really irrelevant. I will certainly correct it.

  3. Very instructive, Éva! And I hope: for everyone.

    “… the fact that Hungary fought to the bitter end alongside Hitler’s army is nothing to be proud of.” In my mind, Hungary didn’t fight a lot, but lost and suffered a lot. And that is also nothing to be proud of. It’s a pity and a shame.

    And: “The sacrifice was not for naught.” This still has a chance to be proved. At present, it continues to look like wishful thinking.

  4. Let’s not forget that Bardossy is not someone to look up to either. He was a good politician, and even better nationalist. His motivation for trying not to let the Germans through had nothing to do with humanitarianism, or with right or wrong, it was simply to save the Hungarian land. It was him who declared that Hungary is at war with the USA in 1941.

  5. Interesting declaration of Bárdossy about the British and the USA. However in June 1941 the Soviet Union promised Hungary to keep northern Transsylvania if it does not declare war. The Hungarian Gov. was sure, that the Germans will win the war and that they must take part in that war.
    So why does now the Hungarian Gov. rehabilitate the leaders of Hungary who ruined their country?
    Probably because they themselves hope to be rehabilitated if Hungary will be reconstructed in ten or twenty years?
    When pretending to construct the racialist project of a harmonious society one has to reject the legacy of 1789, one has to abolish equal rights, emancipation, self-determination and common humanity.

  6. There is certainly a movement on the right (lead by Orbán and his men) to treat all soldiers heroes. This, along with other symbolic issues like using Horthy-era paraphernalia around the army (and in the cultural life), is part of a well-thought out strategy to use nationalism to create a devoted political community, that is devovoted to Fidesz and not the “international, foreign-hearted post-communists” (note the new term for the left, as communist may sound an exaggeration in 2012, but they are surely post-communist, right?).

    Fidesz openly (at least he openly talked about it to supporters a couple of years ago) segmened the electorate into a couple very distinct constituencies, including the relegious people, the nationlatistic voters, the people of the housing projects (aka panelprolis), the pensionsers and perhaps two more. Obviously there is an overlap and you can segment the country in many ways. But in order to keep the political strategy clean you start with a small number of constituencies and cater to them consisently and distinctly.

    Nationalism, including the renessaince (or in many the first real success) of Wass Albert, Nyirő József, Thormay Cecile are part of this strategy, suppported by the whole right wing political eco-system (like the religeous, who also help in the process, but don’t forget that many nationatlistic people, for whom this is the most important political issue, never go to church), to creat a feeling of a community, especially for those who feel alienated.

    Anxiety is a such a profound feeling of a lot of people, that they don’t even realize it (so it is not even a feeling, it is more like a state of existence), it is so natural and built in to their everyday. These people naturally look for a way of feeling part of a stable project (like the nation) that is stronger then themselves and outive them.

    The left completely abandoned communitarian issues (supporting the Western liberal individual rights discourse) and gave up a huge political area. This wouldn’t have been very problematic, but Fidesz is extremely strategic, agressive and networked in various ways — even if they can’t govern.

    Note also Berlusconi, he is coming back with a vengeance with huge percentages (he will surely be able to block any laws against him) even though Italy’s current state is mostly his fault, he having governed the most in the last 20 years. Orbán will similarly stage a come back if a new goverrnment will have to take difficult but necessary steps after Orbán’s disastrous Orban government (and in an Orban-system). This is the power of one person, close to 80, and in a democary, no less. And the complete impotence of the left for almost 50 years in Italy. We will soon see, how impotent the Hungarian left is.

  7. What would be interesting, for this Second army, is to make the study of the geographic, ethnic and religious origin of its recruits. My first impression about this story is, that the Hungarian commandment didn’t care much about these human losses. It’s as if they’ve sent them there knowing, they could/would get massacred.

  8. There is a point to your interpretation, but I would like to see you emphasizing more that the individual soldiers not all of whom burned villages but who were sent to death by an irresponsible political elite do deserve commemoration. Horthy forbidding the troops to retreat was plain treason and murder and a lot of young Hungarians who went to war when they were told to (or forced to) died a completely meaningless death on the altar of Hitler’s and his allies’s madness.

    Every country in the world commemorates their soldiers as giving their life for their country regardless of the moral justification of the war they died in. Just look at the hundreds of American lives that were given to find George W. Bush’s imagined weapons of mass distraction (pun intended). In the US, nobody would argue that the soldiers themselves weren’t heroes who died for their country (for what else? ). The unspeakable atrocities committed by US soldiers at the Abu Graib prison doesn’t change this fact either.

    It took me a long time to come to terms with the Soviet memorial too. Afterall, it’s well documented that the Red Army wasn’t far behind the Germans in ruthless pillaging and raping. My solution to this was that in my eyes, soldiers committing these criminal actions automatically excluded themselves from the commemoration and therefore the memorial is automatically only for the ones who fought an honest fight. (Even though I’m still not entirely convinced why this should be in Budapest and not Moscow or some Russian city)

  9. OT: Prof Iván Szelényi talks in Figyelő, telling that he still thinks that Matolcsy is a good economist???

    Unfortunately this qualifies Szelényi and not Matolcsy.

    Prof. Szelényi lacks even the most basic insights such as that Keynsian economy could work only where there is a demand for the currency as a safe haven (such as USD, GBP), in Hungary it is impossible to spend more (mind you, this Keynsian strategy was exactly what the MSZP government did, it always way overspent without any consistent growth, exactly because spending politically is very inefficient) because there are no natural buyers for the bond (only risk-taking ivestors at high interest rates) or by printing money which causes inflation in a small and open economy (unlike in the US, which is big and much less open, ie foreign trade is much smaller part of the GDP). I don’t even want to continue. This is shameful.

  10. London Calling!

    RedsocksRe – but Matolcsy has his magic wand – and his delusion.

    Don’t forget too that all-Europe is copying Hungaries policies – and Hungary will be the centre of World commerce.

    The economy will fly during the second half of 2013.

    And they are well on target for creating 1 million jobs by 2020.

    And their aim is to have the same GDP as Austria.

    Of course everything will be easier when he is the Bank Governor – with his ‘strategic’ partnership with the Government – and he can get his hands on the reserves.

    (Btw – Orban and Matolcsy often repeat the ‘Europe are copying us’ lie – but I don’t know of anywhere where this is the case. Any evidence anyone?
    Why do the foreign journalists as least not confront these lies? Where’s the opposition – and where is the analysis from the home media?)

    I will award ‘The Pink Bottom’ award for any examples!

    Regards

    Charlie

  11. Karl Pfeifer :

    Interesting declaration of Bárdossy about the British and the USA. However in June 1941 the Soviet Union promised Hungary to keep northern Transsylvania if it does not declare war. The Hungarian Gov. was sure, that the Germans will win the war and that they must take part in that war.

    Also, in 1938, although Britain didn’t support the First Vienna Award formally, they quietly indicated that they were not entirely satisfied with the Czechoslovak-Hungarian borders.

  12. M.J. :

    What would be interesting, for this Second army, is to make the study of the geographic, ethnic and religious origin of its recruits. My first impression about this story is, that the Hungarian commandment didn’t care much about these human losses. It’s as if they’ve sent them there knowing, they could/would get massacred.

    István Nemeskürty, a self-styled historian, had this theory in the early 1970s. Then Nemeskürty was a super Marxist with Ludovika Military Academy as background.He claimed that the government really didn’t care about these men because most of them came from the poverty-stricken peasantry. Not very convincing.

    Lately, however, I read that quite a few non-Hungarians served in the Second Army and that the Hungarian military leadership didn’t quite trust them. That the Hungarians callously sent these men to die is too horrid to contemplate. Or at least I hope so.

  13. Eva, I believe that in Horthy’s shoes, you could think approximately this way: I have an ally who doesn’t take “no” as an answer, I don’t want to put my best armed, trained, most reliable (those that “the military leadership quite trusts”) forces into this mess, so I send out a mass of people I can live without – Germans can’t say I haven’t sent substantial forces, in the best case, they don’t all die, in the worst case, they’re slaughtered – but Hungary surely won’t miss them. Actually, when I think about it, a long time ago, I might have read something about this in a novel by Pal Zavada, was it Jadviga parnaja? I don’t remember exactly.
    But you hinted at those jews as “accompanying workforce”, doesn’t make much sense otherwise. I doubt these were considered reliable by the Hungarian leadership, don’t you? And if Jews could be sent to death, why not the others?
    One thing I’ve learned about politicians, never underestimate their cynicism. Especially those from totalitarian regimes.

  14. Another personal comment on my father’s participation in that war:

    After reading more details I realised that my father wasn’t too far from the Hungarians, maybe 200 km to the North …

    He never talked much about the retreat that he saved with his group of men and their small anti-aircraft gun (aka Flaky), but I just found out that he even has his own (small) entry in wiki!

    As I remember he was commandeered to the German headquarter afterwards to guard its outer perimeter with his small anti-aircraft guns but later returned to the Russian front where he was shot – some shrapnel lodged in his brain so he stayed in a hospital until the end of the war and later.

    He often told me that he had been luck there – probably his life would also have been lost in the war if he had had to stay there until the bitter end.

    I also remember that people used to write him and asked for an autographed picture – but he never answered, he wasn’t really proud of the whole thing and he even told the mayor that they might take him out of the town’s “Golden Book” where his entry had been the first during the war …

    So in his thinking there really was nothing to be proud of – just like those poor Hungarian soldier who fought and lost their lives for a not so “good cause” …

    They had all been duped by the very efficient Nazi propaganda!

    PS:

    What made an undelible expression in my mind where the stories my father told a bout the Führer’s headquarter:

    For rest and recreation he was allowed into the inner circle (guarded by SS men of course) where people would listen to Jazz, watch Hollywood films and drink whiskey and champagne got somehow from the enemy and generally have fun …

    And much later I heard similar stories about the East German communist “nomenklatura” – seems the men in power are all the same …

  15. Not only Jews served in the laborbattallions (munkaszolgálat), also leftwing non Jewish Hungarians were serving and also members of national minorities.

  16. Karl Pfeifer :
    Not only Jews served in the laborbattallions (munkaszolgálat), also leftwing non Jewish Hungarians were serving and also members of national minorities.

    True. In general, most units had Jewish laborers (yellow armband). There were also units of converted Jews (white armband), politically unreliable people, and minorities, mainly Romanians.

    I do not know the % of the different units at the Don. I suspect the vast majority had Jewish laborers.

  17. Two very interesting articles, Éva, but they have left me a little confused.

    At the end of your previous post, you seem to imply that Hungary didn’t join the Axis in order to get the Trianon territories back, but because of Horthy’s pro-German feelings and deep hatred of communists. And yet, all that I’ve read since becoming interested in Hungary says that Hungary DID join the war on Germany’s side to regain the lost territories.

    Have I misunderstood you, or are you saying that, even if there had been no lost territory to regain, Horthy would still have taken Hungary into the war?

  18. I just want to say that supporting our soldiers is always a dicy statement, as it is very ambiguous. Are we supporting what they do, we support them to come back alive, we support the government? I do support soldiers who remain human, and that is a hard task. It is unfortunate that soldiers often become toys of a government. The Hungarian soldiers sent to the frontline by Horthy and his culprits had to go, they had no choice. Some became heroes but we have to make it clear that against a hero there is always an enemy, and in this case the enemy was not the Soviets only, but Horthy and the Hungarian government at the time. Until this message comes through, I am cool with honouring our soldiers.
    My feeling is that the current Hungarian government (Fidesz) is not there to honour those soldiers but it uses them again, at this time as a piece in a PR campaign.

  19. Paul, I think you misunderstood my first post on Voronezh. In fact, I wrote in an essay about Hungarian foreign policy: “Whether one accepts or rejects the view that revision of the Treaty of Trianon was the sine qua non of the nation’s “survival and independent existence,”1 the fact remains that revisionism was the cornerstone of Hungary’s interwar foreign policy. Successive governments preached the gospel of revisionism to anyone who would listen, repeating its message so often and with such fervor that many Westerners soon became convinced that “the Hungarian people were not quite sane on that subject.”2

    You can read the whole article here: http://www.hungarianhistory.com/lib/bors/bors07.htm

  20. Lecso :

    The goverment of those times was not innocent, but can we blame them for trying to unite Hungary?

    Most of the territories lost were not inhabited by Hungarians and those non-Hungarians didn’t want to belong to Hungary. Moreover, revisionism didn’t have much of a chance to succeed. The price for the possession of those territories for a few years was far too high. Incredible human and material losses.

  21. Eva S. Balogh :

    Lecso :
    The goverment of those times was not innocent, but can we blame them for trying to unite Hungary?

    Most of the territories lost were not inhabited by Hungarians and those non-Hungarians didn’t want to belong to Hungary. Moreover, revisionism didn’t have much of a chance to succeed. The price for the possession of those territories for a few years was far too high. Incredible human and material losses.

    The 1941 borders were acceptable in my opinion. Shame we lost them.

  22. Lecso :

    The 1941 borders were acceptable in my opinion. Shame we lost them.

    Are you talking about the Second Vienna Award? There were far too many Romanians within the new borders. It is possible that the Soviet Union would have supported Hungary against Romania but I doubt that the 1941 borders would have been left untouched.

  23. Eva S. Balogh :

    Lecso :
    The 1941 borders were acceptable in my opinion. Shame we lost them.

    Are you talking about the Second Vienna Award? There were far too many Romanians within the new borders. It is possible that the Soviet Union would have supported Hungary against Romania but I doubt that the 1941 borders would have been left untouched.

    Hungarians were still a majority in the Second Vienna Award, and overall, Hungary overall was 80% Hungarian, which is an acceptable amount, especially if you look at countries today.

  24. Lecso :

    Hungarians were still a majority in the Second Vienna Award, and overall, Hungary overall was 80% Hungarian, which is an acceptable amount, especially if you look at countries today.

    Historian Keith Hitchins says the following: . It did not solve the nationality problem by separating all Magyars from all Rumanians. Some 1,150,000 to 1,300,000 Rumanians, or 48 per cent to over 50 per cent of the population of the ceded territory, depending upon whose statistics are used, remained north of the new frontier, while about 500,000 Magyars (other Hungarian estimates go as high as 800,000, Rumanian as low as 363,000) continued to reside in the south.

  25. Eva S. Balogh :
    Paul, I think you misunderstood my first post on Voronezh. In fact, I wrote in an essay about Hungarian foreign policy: “Whether one accepts or rejects the view that revision of the Treaty of Trianon was the sine qua non of the nation’s “survival and independent existence,”1 the fact remains that revisionism was the cornerstone of Hungary’s interwar foreign policy. Successive governments preached the gospel of revisionism to anyone who would listen, repeating its message so often and with such fervor that many Westerners soon became convinced that “the Hungarian people were not quite sane on that subject.”2
    You can read the whole article here: http://www.hungarianhistory.com/lib/bors/bors07.htm

    Thanks, Éva, that was certainly my understanding.

    As for Hungarians not being quite sane, I note that in most English/American books and film Hungarian characters are nearly always bizarre or eccentric.

    Mind you, in American films, anyone with an English accent is invariably a crook!

  26. A nice irony that, according to Wikipedia, it was the Russian bombing of Kassa (Košice) that ’caused’ Hungary to declare war on the USSR. But, of course, had it not been for the First Vienna Award, Kassa wouldn’t have been in Hungary at that time.

  27. nyaripal :

    A nice irony that, according to Wikipedia, it was the Russian bombing of Kassa (Košice) that ’caused’ Hungary to declare war on the USSR. But, of course, had it not been for the First Vienna Award, Kassa wouldn’t have been in Hungary at that time.

    Moreover, it is not at all clear that the planes were Russian. I don’t think we will ever know the truth. There are some who believe that actually they were German planes. According to this scenario the Hungarian high command was so eager to joint the German war effort that they conspired with the German military to this end.

  28. Re Galamus. They ran out of money. They would need about 10 million forints per year. Perhaps some rich people decide to spend a little of their money for a good cause. Galamus is a very valuable website.

  29. Eva S. Balogh :
    Re Galamus. They ran out of money. They would need about 10 million forints per year. Perhaps some rich people decide to spend a little of their money for a good cause. Galamus is a very valuable website.

    Why so much, Éva? It can’t cost that much to run a website and I assumed the contributors weren’t paid.

  30. nyaripal :

    Why so much, Éva? It can’t cost that much to run a website and I assumed the contributors weren’t paid.

    Yes, the contributors work for gratis. But Zsófi and her partner, Laci, have to live on something. That would be a relatively small sum but since Zsófi does everything alone which means that she can hardly sleep: editing the contributors’ writings, watch the news, put up the MTI news day and night. So, they would like to get a couple of more people to help and here and there pay contributors. I think this is how she came up with the 10 million.

  31. Eva S. Balogh :

    nyaripal :
    A nice irony that, according to Wikipedia, it was the Russian bombing of Kassa (Košice) that ’caused’ Hungary to declare war on the USSR. But, of course, had it not been for the First Vienna Award, Kassa wouldn’t have been in Hungary at that time.

    Moreover, it is not at all clear that the planes were Russian. I don’t think we will ever know the truth. There are some who believe that actually they were German planes. According to this scenario the Hungarian high command was so eager to joint the German war effort that they conspired with the German military to this end.

    I wondered about this. Wikipeadia has them as “unmarked planes”. Also, I have never understood why the USSR would bomb Kassa – especially then, and just Kassa, and just once.

    And the idea of starting something by attacking something and pretending to be someone else would hardly have been a new idea to the Nazis…

    Maybe even Horthy himself was in on this – it would give him a chance to get out from the German pressure to join the war without it looking like he’d given in. Otherwise, surely if he’d been that determined not to join in the war with the USSR, I’m sure one brief, and rather suspcious, bombing raid on a distant border city wouldn’t have changed his mind.

  32. Eva S. Balogh :

    nyaripal :
    Why so much, Éva? It can’t cost that much to run a website and I assumed the contributors weren’t paid.

    Yes, the contributors work for gratis. But Zsófi and her partner, Laci, have to live on something. That would be a relatively small sum but since Zsófi does everything alone which means that she can hardly sleep: editing the contributors’ writings, watch the news, put up the MTI news day and night. So, they would like to get a couple of more people to help and here and there pay contributors. I think this is how she came up with the 10 million.

    I hadn’t looked at it for ages (since it started, I think), so I didn’t realise how big and sophisticated it had got. She’s effectively trying to run a 24 houyur newspaper almost-single handed!

    Perhaps the answer is to scale it back to a sort of super-blog? Still with all the contributors, but none of the ‘bells and whistles’. Better than closing it down – with Klub Rádió fighting to stay alive, we need as many other sources of non-Fidesz controlled news and opinion as we can get.

  33. Lecso :
    The goverment of those times was not innocent, but can we blame them for trying to unite Hungary?

    Tell that to the 40,000 who died. It is like Matolcsy and Orban preaching about all the financial sacrifices Hungarian have to make, while they cutting back on the taxes they have to pay, and living well above the average Jozsi.

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