“For you only death is the proper punishment.” Zsolt Bayer on Jews and liberals

Before I tackle today’s topic I would like to call everybody’s attention to Professor Kim Scheppele’s article on the Hungarian government’s attempt to silence the Hungarian Constitutional Court, which lately has found several pieces of legislation unconstitutional. The title of her piece is “Constitutional Revenge”; it appeared on Paul Krugman’s blog in The New York Times. You can read it at

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/03/01/guest-post-constitutional-revenge/

 * * *

I’m afraid I have to write again about the infamous Zsolt Bayer, a scribbler of extremist views. There are tabloid journalists like Bayer everywhere, but Zsolt Bayer is not a run-of-the-mill hack. He holds the #5 membership card of Fidesz. (László Kövér, president of the Hungarian parliament, holds the #1 card.) So, he was one of the original members of the tightly-knit group that eventually transformed their student association into a large and powerful party.

On February 27 Tamás Fellegi, former minister of economic development and minister without portfolio in charge of the nonexistent IMF negotiations, testified before the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Foreign Affairs (Subcommittee on Africa, Global Health, Global Human Rights, and International Organizations) about “Anti-Semitism: A Growing Threat to All Faiths.” The complete text of his testimony can be read on this blogHere I would like to quote only a couple of sentences from Fellegi’s testimony:

 One should not really argue that certain writings by journalists associated with the center­‐right, such as the infamous commentaries of Zsolt Bayer, cannot be deemed as racist. It is also a fact that there are people associated with the center­‐right political community who support the rehabilitation of the historic period of Admiral Horthy. I am personally against his rehabilitation, and that applies to a wide range of political and literary figures of that era.

Please pay attention to the careful wording. He admits that Zsolt Bayer is considered to be associated with Fidesz–in Fellegi’s word “the center-right”–and that he is a racist. Mind you, Fellegi’s sentence construction is rather complicated, most likely in order to muddy the waters. He also makes it clear that this opinion is his alone. He didn’t say what I think he should have said, that “my party considers Zsolt Bayer a racist and therefore the leadership decided to disassociate itself from him.”

On the very same day that Fellegi testified in Washington about the excellent record of the Orbán government in its resolute fight against antisemitism, Zsolt Bayer celebrated his 50th birthday with friends at the Barabás Villa in Budapest. László Kövér delivered a  toast to Bayer, stating that they “had spent twenty-five years together, through thick and thin and in sadness and joy. Not once have we disowned each other, and we never will.” That is clear, isn’t it.

Zsolt Bayer, who played a key role in organizing the Peace Marches that Viktor Orbán found so critical to his political self-preservation, is an important man as far as the Orbán government is concerned. And if Bayer didn’t know that before Kövér’s endorsement, he certainly knows it now. And he became emboldened. Three days later came a new article in Magyar Hírlap where Bayer is a senior contributor.

As usual, translating Zsolt Bayer is hellishly difficult. The title of the article poses problems already. “Önsorsrontás” is close to untranslatable as one word. Basically it means that “we ourselves are responsible for our future demise.” The “we” here is “the white, Christian race.” Although Bayer never uses the words “Jew” or “Jewish,” he notes that those who have been doing everything in their power to ruin that white Christian race have been at it ever since 1919. I think the date is significant. After all, this marks the short rule of the Hungarian Soviet Republic, which is considered by the right a “Jewish affair.”

And there is another sinful group in every country–the generation of the 1968 “mummies” who complain about the “fascism that is living with us.” Their complaints about the far right and its dangers are merely a “self-justification” for their existence. These people (Jews, liberals?) organize themselves “in packs and attack their victims like loathsome drooling hyenas.” And here comes a typical Zsolt Bayer sentence: “For you only death is the proper punishment. Because you believe in death, in public executions while your victims are left alone, go bankrupt, their friends deny them, they lose their jobs, and come to a sorry end. This is your goal.” Therefore their sins are immeasurable and they will be punished. Because these mysterious people don’t realize “what monster [they] are trying to resuscitate. In fact, [they] woke him up already.”

Hyena pack

Hyena pack

All that sounds pretty threatening, but then comes the twist. “You don’t foresee yet that it will be only we who raise our voices in your defense. We, the marked victims. We are the only ones to whom you can turn for help. It will be only we who will hide you. Because we are good to the point of ruining ourselves. And take this all very seriously. You miserable ones.”

This is not Jobbik speaking but one of the founders of Fidesz who is assured that he will always be among the chosen. Therefore, it really doesn’t matter what Tamás Fellegi personally thinks of Zsolt Bayer or how much János Martonyi complains about “the anti-Hungarian hysterical propaganda that tries to make Fidesz an extension of the racist Jobbik.”

Only recently Ian Kelly, American ambassador to the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe, stated that the American government expected the Hungarian government to condemn Zsolt Bayer for his antisemitic and anti-Gypsy writings because of the documented connection between hate speech and crimes against humanity. The Hungarian government didn’t move a finger. Fellegi’s testimony therefore is worth absolutely nothing. Can you imagine what the members of this subcommittee would think if they could read the writings of the owner of the #5 membership card of Fidesz, the party of the “center-right”  Fellegi is so proud of?

51 comments

  1. I am putting all my trust into Dr. Ferenc Donath to stop the trainwreck called FIDESZ/JOBBIK regime.

    99% of the Hungarians will appreciate his actions.

    He will demonstrate when nobody shows.

    He is the modern Jean d’Arc.

  2. Looks like the Magyar Hirlap became Hungary’s Völkischer Beobachter. In it in 2013 you can write about the fight of the white race against ______________.

    By the way the bozo does speak about Jews. He goes “… I wrote about those who are trying to explain and hide their mistakes and sins with their imagined or real Jewishness”.

    Bayer is the big empty moral bubble of the lunatic extra right of Hungary. This article is so empty as the banker’s heart (oops). The gist of it is basically like “you ______________ are evil people and we ______________ are good people. You know who you are.” That’s it.

    The article is full of cheesy writing trickery. Short, pompous sentences that he repeats for the second time. Like the “truth” in them have such a weight that we should ponder it. Ah, I see the light! Thank you Mr. Bayer! Such a moron. It’s basically an empty sermon. There is no reference to any real events or people. I guess he fancies himself as the moral compass. The emperor cannot be more butt naked that this guy is. I think this level of narcissism is a pathological case. It sounds like the pontifications of a fascist Yoda.

    But I got something positive out of it. While I was reading it I had constantly the impression that there is desperation everywhere in the article. It sounds rather depressed than fiery. He probably started to see that the house of cards of the Orban regime is about to fall. Failure is apparent everywhere. The “heroes” don’t deliver and the number of believers are dropping with light speed. I’d like to believe that this is what made him to go this low and burp out such a delirious utterance.

    It also sounded like a swan song. Maybe Szeles (the paper’s owner) about to send him the silk rope.

  3. Make noise and be seen: prima donnas all. And in the background, the monstrously ill-willed Orban is laughing his mentally-deranged guts out.

    Well, never mind: what the good rabbi once said stands–“Hungary without jews is a whistling peach and baggy pants.” And the truth of that statement will forever eat at the heart of such mediocre-minuses as Bayer.

  4. @Mutt
    ” the number of believers are dropping with light speed.”

    The numbers show a different trend right now. It is perhaps the forced 10% drop in the price of electricity and heating, the billions spent to Fidesz propaganda, the disorganization of the opposition, I do no know.

    Do you think the country is heading in the right direction?

    February 2013 [October 2012, June 2012]

    Yes 24% [16%, 13%]

    No 69% [76%, 80%]

    Source:
    http://median.hu/object.a4f14933-36ef-4cb3-9701-80eff2e39552.ivy

  5. Greetings to Petofi.
    The blog is full of life when Petofi appears here.
    Let us find the solution to the overthrow of the laughable Orban/Jobbik clowns.
    The manipulations and selfish mismanagement of Orban and co. do not scare away all Hungarians.
    That crowd is still too big. This 15-25% of the citizens, some out od self-interest, some out of indifference, strongly cheer the nonsense of Orban, like they supported Horthy, too.
    Most of them are intelligent and otherwise decent people.
    Just one thing, they are hostages of the St. Istvan patriotic old Hungary myths.
    Most of us discarded these believes with the Enlightenment.
    Not these ultra-Hungarians.
    But we should not hate them. It would not be a good Christian attitude.
    Back in America the craziest house and senate Republicans and Democrats always get the support of the usual suspects.
    The rest of us is divided, and leaderless.
    Obama is not a clear thinker. He talks fuzzy nonsense most of the time . Not too insane, just fuzzy.
    Under his leadership, every extremist East European regime could play its messy tune, and the ineffective Hillary was of no help, too.
    With this American incompetence, the world is in a deeper crisis again.

  6. tappanch :
    @Mutt
    ” the number of believers are dropping with light speed.”

    I hear ya! But still … When I talk to my fideszoid friends I sense a serious disturbance in the Force.
    Anyway. What does this “good direction” mean? Fidesz is loosing support. That’s good direction!

    “Fel a fejjel, amíg van!”

  7. muttdamon :

    tappanch :
    @Mutt
    ” the number of believers are dropping with light speed.”

    I hear ya! But still … When I talk to my fideszoid friends I sense a serious disturbance in the Force.
    Anyway. What does this “good direction” mean? Fidesz is loosing support. That’s good direction!
    “Fel a fejjel, amíg van!”

    I do not know the details of the pollsters’ survey methods. But the numbers show a swing of 10% towards Fidesz in the last 8 months, i.e. Fidesz was able to convince 5% of the people to change their mind and support them again, at least to the pollsters. We shall see whether the February numbers are repeated in March or not.

    The democratic opposition is leaderless, that is a huge problem.

    There should be daily huge protests against the amendments that solidify Fidesz tyranny, but the opposition parties do not even call for demonstrations!

    March 15 is too late, and too infrequent! Mr Mesterhazy is a nice guy, but he has been sleeping for 3 years as the chairman of the biggest opposition party.

  8. Petőfi, the whistling peach is a kind of snaps, made from peach (btw what happened with said rabbi Landesmann?).More interesting is today’s reaction to MSZP campaign video published today.

    Mind you, this is not really a proper campaign video, we are far from the elections. It is more like a mood setting, image building, approach-from-afar kind of video.

    That said, it is one of the very few videos MSZP did in the last 4 years.

    Probably no lawer has vetted the final cut as RTL (the main Hungarian commercial tv channel) is demanding a reedition of the video as MSZP did not get a license to use a section of RTL’s news program.

    Anyway, on Youtube (the video is reachable through http://www.mszp.hu) only about a 1100 people saw it, but the reaction of the trolls (mostly the very computer-savvy Jobbik faction of the Fidesz/Jobbik ideological conglomerat) is crazy. They started an an all-out assault. In a couple of hours literally hundreds of comments, under hundreds of different nicks appeared to denounce MSZP and express compltete support for Fidesz and Jobbik).

    This activity shows the – unparalleled – online media prowsess of both Fidesz and Jobbik. This may be a couple of dozens of people, but still on a sunny Sunday they can order dozens (if not more) of (young) activits to sign up for altogether 500-600 separate nick names and fight vigourously against MSZP.

    If anybody thought the campaign will be a peace of cake (thought that perhapos because Fidesz/Jobbik already own the media, the election system is tilted towards them will spend less on the campaign, well, not gonna happen), Fidesz/Jobbik will not give up power without a fight. And fight they can. It will be the dirtiest (meanwhile MSZP is hindered from inside, I hear that there is a fear that the holder of the keys to the MSZP’s campaign funds, may have been secretely purchased (already owned) by Fidesz, and without access to funds against Fidesz’s literally hundreds of billions syphononed off, you’re dead in the water, after all, it’s money what you need for a war).

    I guess, MSZP and Bajnai people should buckle their seat belts.

  9. petofi :
    Make noise and be seen: prima donnas all. And in the background, the monstrously ill-willed Orban is laughing his mentally-deranged guts out.
    Well, never mind: what the good rabbi once said stands–”Hungary without jews is a whistling peach and baggy pants.” And the truth of that statement will forever eat at the heart of such mediocre-minuses as Bayer.

    THis kind of attitude does not help the Hungarian issue. Why on Earth would you grab this sentence out and put it here? Do you really think Jews are superior? There are plenty of Hungarians without any Jewish or other heritage mixed into their bloodstream who did outstanding things for Hungary, and who did not advertise that they are “pure Hungarians”. When this sentence was originally spoken, it was in context, not like your and some anti-semites version who dragged out from context. THe “good rabbi” you are referring to has a name, Gyorgy Landeszmann, and he was the chief rabbi in 1993 when he spoke. THe context is that they asked him, why wouldn’t the Hungarian Jews distance themselves from Rakosi, Gero, etc. So his answer was the well know sentence. What it means in that context I will leave it to the readers.

    THere is no reason in my book to separate Hungarians by heritage or race. BY doing so , there is nothing that makes someone any different then Bayer.

  10. 14-14-14-18-18-18 :
    Greetings to Petofi.
    The blog is full of life when Petofi appears here.
    Let us find the solution to the overthrow of the laughable Orban/Jobbik clowns.
    The manipulations and selfish mismanagement of Orban and co. do not scare away all Hungarians.

    My answer to you is same as to Petofi above. Shame! You guys are the Bayers of the other side or what?

  11. Some1 :

    petofi :
    Make noise and be seen: prima donnas all. And in the background, the monstrously ill-willed Orban is laughing his mentally-deranged guts out.
    Well, never mind: what the good rabbi once said stands–”Hungary without jews is a whistling peach and baggy pants.” And the truth of that statement will forever eat at the heart of such mediocre-minuses as Bayer.

    THis kind of attitude does not help the Hungarian issue. Why on Earth would you grab this sentence out and put it here? Do you really think Jews are superior? There are plenty of Hungarians without any Jewish or other heritage mixed into their bloodstream who did outstanding things for Hungary, and who did not advertise that they are “pure Hungarians”. When this sentence was originally spoken, it was in context, not like your and some anti-semites version who dragged out from context. THe “good rabbi” you are referring to has a name, Gyorgy Landeszmann, and he was the chief rabbi in 1993 when he spoke. THe context is that they asked him, why wouldn’t the Hungarian Jews distance themselves from Rakosi, Gero, etc. So his answer was the well know sentence. What it means in that context I will leave it to the readers.
    THere is no reason in my book to separate Hungarians by heritage or race. BY doing so , there is nothing that makes someone any different then Bayer.

    Oy vey, zurelay! Token liberalism–spare me.

    Have you considered, even for a nano second, that the rabbi’s answer was in response to an absolutely disgusting question? No, probably not.
    Sometimes, Mss Some1, one just runs out of patience
    with the state of affairs in this god-forsaken country.
    Perhaps, if the country had not had 45 years of slippery, conniving, lying, betraying and a whole host
    of sickening behaviors, one could, I suppose, be a touch more charitable. Well, the clock has struck 12.
    Hungary is getting exactly what it deserves–Orban and the whole lawless mess, with Bulgaria-types ‘businessmen’ taking over the life-blood of the country; and if you think they’ll be easy to dislodge….
    You see, some of us have nothing left but Irony & Anger to deal with what we see…but to compare us with Bayer!! Well, my dear, get yourself a mental tuneup, will ya-

  12. petofi :

    Some1 :

    petofi :
    Make noise and be seen: prima donnas all. And in the background, the monstrously ill-willed Orban is laughing his mentally-deranged guts out.
    Well, never mind: what the good rabbi once said stands–”Hungary without jews is a whistling peach and baggy pants.” And the truth of that statement will forever eat at the heart of such mediocre-minuses as Bayer.

    THis kind of attitude does not help the Hungarian issue. Why on Earth would you grab this sentence out and put it here? Do you really think Jews are superior? There are plenty of Hungarians without any Jewish or other heritage mixed into their bloodstream who did outstanding things for Hungary, and who did not advertise that they are “pure Hungarians”. When this sentence was originally spoken, it was in context, not like your and some anti-semites version who dragged out from context. THe “good rabbi” you are referring to has a name, Gyorgy Landeszmann, and he was the chief rabbi in 1993 when he spoke. THe context is that they asked him, why wouldn’t the Hungarian Jews distance themselves from Rakosi, Gero, etc. So his answer was the well know sentence. What it means in that context I will leave it to the readers.
    THere is no reason in my book to separate Hungarians by heritage or race. BY doing so , there is nothing that makes someone any different then Bayer.

    Oy vey, zurelay! Token liberalism–spare me.
    Have you considered, even for a nano second, that the rabbi’s answer was in response to an absolutely disgusting question? No, probably not.
    Sometimes, Mss Some1, one just runs out of patience
    with the state of affairs in this god-forsaken country.
    Perhaps, if the country had not had 45 years of slippery, conniving, lying, betraying and a whole host
    of sickening behaviors, one could, I suppose, be a touch more charitable. Well, the clock has struck 12.
    Hungary is getting exactly what it deserves–Orban and the whole lawless mess, with Bulgaria-types ‘businessmen’ taking over the life-blood of the country; and if you think they’ll be easy to dislodge….
    You see, some of us have nothing left but Irony & Anger to deal with what we see…but to compare us with Bayer!! Well, my dear, get yourself a mental tuneup, will ya-

    Actually, I knew the rabbi’s name, so probably I considered more things that you did. I am not saying the rabbi was at fault, I am saying you are. THe reason I inserted the context, so people can see why he said what he said.
    We have to rise above the Bayers, when we are talking about Hungary and Hungarians, so we do not offend those who do not deserve to be offended. Most Hungarins have nothing to do with Bayer. Orban and Kover have, and certainly they are the “whistling peach snaps, and the baggy pants” of the land, but not all Hungarians!

  13. Some1 :

    petofi :

    Some1 :

    petofi :
    Make noise and be seen: prima donnas all. And in the background, the monstrously ill-willed Orban is laughing his mentally-deranged guts out.
    Well, never mind: what the good rabbi once said stands–”Hungary without jews is a whistling peach and baggy pants.” And the truth of that statement will forever eat at the heart of such mediocre-minuses as Bayer.

    THis kind of attitude does not help the Hungarian issue. Why on Earth would you grab this sentence out and put it here? Do you really think Jews are superior? There are plenty of Hungarians without any Jewish or other heritage mixed into their bloodstream who did outstanding things for Hungary, and who did not advertise that they are “pure Hungarians”. When this sentence was originally spoken, it was in context, not like your and some anti-semites version who dragged out from context. THe “good rabbi” you are referring to has a name, Gyorgy Landeszmann, and he was the chief rabbi in 1993 when he spoke. THe context is that they asked him, why wouldn’t the Hungarian Jews distance themselves from Rakosi, Gero, etc. So his answer was the well know sentence. What it means in that context I will leave it to the readers.
    THere is no reason in my book to separate Hungarians by heritage or race. BY doing so , there is nothing that makes someone any different then Bayer.

    Oy vey, zurelay! Token liberalism–spare me.
    Have you considered, even for a nano second, that the rabbi’s answer was in response to an absolutely disgusting question? No, probably not.
    Sometimes, Mss Some1, one just runs out of patience
    with the state of affairs in this god-forsaken country.
    Perhaps, if the country had not had 45 years of slippery, conniving, lying, betraying and a whole host
    of sickening behaviors, one could, I suppose, be a touch more charitable. Well, the clock has struck 12.
    Hungary is getting exactly what it deserves–Orban and the whole lawless mess, with Bulgaria-types ‘businessmen’ taking over the life-blood of the country; and if you think they’ll be easy to dislodge….
    You see, some of us have nothing left but Irony & Anger to deal with what we see…but to compare us with Bayer!! Well, my dear, get yourself a mental tuneup, will ya-

    Actually, I knew the rabbi’s name, so probably I considered more things that you did. I am not saying the rabbi was at fault, I am saying you are. THe reason I inserted the context, so people can see why he said what he said.
    We have to rise above the Bayers, when we are talking about Hungary and Hungarians, so we do not offend those who do not deserve to be offended. Most Hungarins have nothing to do with Bayer. Orban and Kover have, and certainly they are the “whistling peach snaps, and the baggy pants” of the land, but not all Hungarians!

    I don’t have your patience with ‘all Hungarians’. They have for so long sold short their sense of decency that it can no longer be activated.

    If I said it once, I’ve said it thrice: Canada, where I grew up, is as staid a society as one can imagine…yet, if 10% of what has transpired in Hungary had been attempted in Canada there would’ve been wholesale outrage; all work would’ve stopped and people would be in the streets and would not have returned to work until some order and propriety had been returned to the community.

    Here? People go to work; hunker down; hope that their neighbor gets the knife in the back and not them. Work together against the threat? Impossible. Perhaps a few feints at doing something but only, I guess, to sell out when most profitable.
    Well, that’s the track record and their seem to me to be few blameless Hungarians in the lot…

  14. petofi: My kids are growing up in Canada, and I spent 25 years here. What’s your point? Does this excuse you to put down Hungarians, because they are not Jewish in Hungary? As I said, you are using the same arguments backward as Bayer does, and that does not make you any better, and does not make the Jewish argument stronger. In fact you are helping Bayer to make his point.

  15. Paul :
    Stop with the ‘Quotes’ – it’s getting silly!

    Don’t read it. lol Scroll. I certainly stopped reading the thread hijacked with Waldorf school, but it is your right to continue with it. Peace!

  16. @Peto fia: Yes;” the country had 45 years of slippery, conniving, lying, betraying and a whole host of sickening behaviors,” and Yes;Some Hungarians “… have for so long sold short their sense of decency that it can no longer be activated”…in order to survive.
    I am just wondering,why do you have to suffer there? You said in the past, that you were smart enough to grow up in Canada. You could enjoy life somewhere else, if Hungarians and their politics are so unkind to you.

  17. @Kormos
    Where-ever we live, if we understand Hungarian, our moral responsibility is to warn the World. Zsolt Bayer is a nazi. Zsolt Bayer is favored by the present Hungarian government.
    Horthy, Wass, Nyiro, Klebelsberg are the shadows of a terrible era and they are all back again. In the curriculum, in the streets and squares. Shame!!!!

  18. Kormos :
    @Peto fia: Yes;” the country had 45 years of slippery, conniving, lying, betraying and a whole host of sickening behaviors,” and Yes;Some Hungarians “… have for so long sold short their sense of decency that it can no longer be activated”…in order to survive.
    I am just wondering,why do you have to suffer there? You said in the past, that you were smart enough to grow up in Canada. You could enjoy life somewhere else, if Hungarians and their politics are so unkind to you.

    What makes you think that he is suffering? He is just angry about this most destructive, incompetent, racist government of the post communist era in Hungary he is and frustrated about his countrymen doing nothing about it.

    What is your definition of patriotism, Kormos?

  19. I would like to point out that the sentences Eva quotes from Fellegi’s testimony are in the “long” written version of Fellegi’s text but he certainly did not mention Bayer (especially not that he is a racist) in his public, recorded statement in front of the House Committee. I listened to it.

  20. Judy :I would like to point out that the sentences Eva quotes from Fellegi’s testimony are in the “long” written version of Fellegi’s text but he certainly did not mention Bayer (especially not that he is a racist) in his public, recorded statement in front of the House Committee. I listened to it.

    I wonder how this works. When people speak before a congressional committee, after they are done (or maybe before it), they provide the written record of the speech. That is the “record” of that speech. Is there any rule for the two to be identical?

    I remember hearing documents to be entered as a congressional record for a speech that was not made (I guess to save time), but I don’t remember someone making an abbreviated speech and then entering the full speech into the record…

  21. @Mutt “A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril. ”
    ― Winston Churchill

  22. To gdfxx. I don’t know what the official record contains exactly. We received the text from the Hungarian Embassy. I should check the Congressional Records.

  23. Judy :
    I would like to point out that the sentences Eva quotes from Fellegi’s testimony are in the “long” written version of Fellegi’s text but he certainly did not mention Bayer (especially not that he is a racist) in his public, recorded statement in front of the House Committee. I listened to it.

    Eva S. Balogh :
    To gdfxx. I don’t know what the official record contains exactly. We received the text from the Hungarian Embassy. I should check the Congressional Records.

    Well, this is going to be interesting. If it turns out that their official version is differ from what he said to the Committee. It certainly would not be the first time Fidesz tries to fool someone or some organization, as there is a long list of double talk. I am very curios.

  24. Kormos :
    @Mutt “A love for tradition has never weakened a nation, indeed it has strengthened nations in their hour of peril. ”
    ― Winston Churchill

    `’…nation(s) in their hour of peril…”–Hungary’s peril comes from the sycophants and thieves that populate their present government and seek to subvert the democratic rights of the people.

    What peril are you talking about Kormos?
    Or, are you just another one of those who suck the putrid milk from Orban’s
    teats?

  25. Kormos :
    @Peto fia: Yes;” the country had 45 years of slippery, conniving, lying, betraying and a whole host of sickening behaviors,” and Yes;Some Hungarians “… have for so long sold short their sense of decency that it can no longer be activated”…in order to survive.
    I am just wondering,why do you have to suffer there? You said in the past, that you were smart enough to grow up in Canada. You could enjoy life somewhere else, if Hungarians and their politics are so unkind to you.

    You see, the “petofi” is frustrated, and so am I. I do have relatives there, and I do not live there, but we still care. I am not sure why do you think that everyone who disagrees, who has an opinion about how sheepish sometimes Hungarians can be, should live the country.
    It sounds that many members of Fidesz and Jobiik suffered enough by the way,and I do not see them packing. Orban actually made a great business out of his “suffering” under the communists, and now form the “conspirators” and “leftists”. Maybe he should pack and go, but then again, there isn’t to many other country where the masses by into his whining for this long.

  26. “Petofi”, if you hate Hungarians and Hungary so much, then why not leave? As I understand you came here from Canada, but you despise every second of your life here and the people that surround you. If it was me I would have been out of here already.

    You certainly dont do us any favours, those who try to convince the anti-semites that Jews don’t hate Hungarians, but then you come along with your superiority complex and Hungary “Without jews is a whistling peach and baggy pants.”. Why is it ok for you to say that, but at the same time you demand the likes of Wass Albert to be banned?

    And why do you differentiate between “Jews” and “Hungarians”, are Jews not Hungarians to you? And if you want to continue with your anti-Hungarian rants, then think about how many Jews there are on Heroes Square. If I was new here, I would think that you were a Fidesz troll pretending and giving everybody the Fidesz stereotype of a Jew.

  27. Some1: Thank’s for replying to Petőfi, I got outraged but decided wasn’t worth my time. You said it all great. Race and ethnicity doesn’t make anyone worse but doesn’t make anyone better either. It definitely hasn’t ever saved anyone from being primitive

  28. @Lecso One doesn’t have to be Jewish to agree with Landesmann. Ignorance is rampant in the country.

    Also in my humble opinion Albert Wass’ syrupy Transylvanian village romantics is pretty much at the level of the baggy pants. The peach schnapps had more lasting effects on me than his books. Btw nobody wants to ban the books. Just take the freakin nazi out of the curriculum.

  29. Some1 :
    petofi: My kids are growing up in Canada, and I spent 25 years here. What’s your point? Does this excuse you to put down Hungarians, because they are not Jewish in Hungary? As I said, you are using the same arguments backward as Bayer does, and that does not make you any better, and does not make the Jewish argument stronger. In fact you are helping Bayer to make his point.

    ‘Why put down Hungarians’–well i’ve
    listed hosts of reasons.

    ‘Because they are not jewish?’–No.
    Because they couldn’t give a fig about Csatary who’s a war criminal
    and is protected by the government.

    Do you have to be jewish to be disgusted by that? Probably, because the run-of-the-mill Hungarian couldn’t give a fig.
    Now THAT’S the disgusting part, Miss Some1. Wrap your logic around
    that.

  30. Lecso :
    “Petofi”, if you hate Hungarians and Hungary so much, then why not leave? As I understand you came here from Canada, but you despise every second of your life here and the people that surround you. If it was me I would have been out of here already.
    You certainly dont do us any favours, those who try to convince the anti-semites that Jews don’t hate Hungarians, but then you come along with your superiority complex and Hungary “Without jews is a whistling peach and baggy pants.”. Why is it ok for you to say that, but at the same time you demand the likes of Wass Albert to be banned?
    And why do you differentiate between “Jews” and “Hungarians”, are Jews not Hungarians to you? And if you want to continue with your anti-Hungarian rants, then think about how many Jews there are on Heroes Square. If I was new here, I would think that you were a Fidesz troll pretending and giving everybody the Fidesz stereotype of a Jew.

    Ah, how cute: so now jews have to sycophant to anti-semites, huh?
    Maybe we should put on our yamukas and dance to Hava Nagila in Heroes Square?
    But, surprise: I’m not even religious, but the not-so-dormant anti-semitism (tolerated in the main) just gets to me.
    So I should leave, huh? I was born here. Budapest is the most beautiful city in the world and was and is my home but it owes nothing to modern-day Hungarians. Nada. And daily, the deterioration continues apace–in outlook, in service, in civility.

  31. Most Hungarians are not anti-semites, but from what you say you dislike the vast majority of Hungarians. Anti-semitism in Hungary is vastly exaggerated.

    “but it owes nothing to modern-day Hungarians. ”
    Let me guess, it owes everything to modern day Jews?

  32. Petöfi, why not be disgusted? Of course you can be that. As far as I understand, the problem is that in your disgust you appear to apply similar logic to people who claim to be disgusted by (insert any “element” considered alien to pure Hungarians). In both cases it sounds as if some individual rights, among them personal dignity, are being denied. There is no such thing as an inferior or superior Hungarian, people (should) have equal rights but also be subject to equally applied laws. (You will not manage to make people who might currently somehow be leaning towards Mr Bayer without themselves having such strong opinions to change their mind if you tell them that they are inferior creatures.)

  33. Lecso :

    Most Hungarians are not anti-semites, but from what you say you dislike the vast majority of Hungarians. Anti-semitism in Hungary is vastly exaggerated.

    “but it owes nothing to modern-day Hungarians. ”
    Let me guess, it owes everything to modern day Jews?

    Have you seen statistics lately? The figures are very high.

  34. I have doubts about the statistics. I am interested to know what the questions actually were. Something like “Do you fully support Israel’s foreign policy” Answer: No” could be classed as antisemitism on such questionnaires.

  35. Lecso :

    I have doubts about the statistics. I am interested to know what the questions actually were. Something like “Do you fully support Israel’s foreign policy” Answer: No” could be classed as antisemitism on such questionnaires.

    Such questions were not asked. But, among other things, “do you think that Jews have too much influence in Hungary?” I don’t remember exactly but it was around 60% who answered in the affirmative.

  36. By the way ‘Petofi’, I am also disgusted and sad at the modern state of Hungary.
    I think we all are.

  37. “Don’t read it. lol Scroll. I certainly stopped reading the thread hijacked with Waldorf school, but it is your right to continue with it. Peace!”

    Point taken, but I think our ‘sub-thread’ was quite obvious for what it was (and you can’t PM anyone on WordPress). What I was whinging about wasn’t the length of the posts, but the needless repetition of previous posts, answers to previous posts, answers to answers to previous posts, answers to answers to answers to previous posts (i’ve lost track of how many generations I was up to, but I’m sure you get my point!).

  38. “Or, are you just another one of those who suck the putrid milk from Orban’s teats?”

    Entirely OT, but I think this sentence deserves some sort of award! True class!

  39. Paul :
    “Or, are you just another one of those who suck the putrid milk from Orban’s teats?”
    Entirely OT, but I think this sentence deserves some sort of award! True class!

    Yes, some constructions just make the pen nib dance with joy.

  40. petofi :

    Do you have to be jewish to be disgusted by that? Probably, because the run-of-the-mill Hungarian couldn’t give a fig.
    Now THAT’S the disgusting part, Miss Some1. Wrap your logic around
    that.

    I know plenty of Hungarians who gave a fig about that, so you are wrong!!!! Some actually protested in front of Csatary’s place.I also know plenty of Hungarians who protest against anti-semitism, and anti-roma sentiments (you are familiar with the later)I also know plenty of Jews who are not nice, and who are criminals.
    It does not seem that you had any problem with the anti-Roma sentiments in Hungary. So, what does that makes you, a good Hungarian or a good Jew?

    THe bottom line is that Hungarians, regardless off ethnic, religious, and sexual background have some bad apples amongst them. Our problem is wit the government that seems to empower some of the worst in society.

    You also wrote that you are living in Budapest. Can you let me know what did you do exactly about the Csatary case? As I’ve mentioned I know some of those who were protesting, so maybe we have some mutual friends.

    ps.: I am not a “Miss”.

  41. wolfi :
    Something abominable here, related to the (in)famous trial of Jews for ritual murder:
    http://kuruc.info/r/2/108838/
    Be warned!
    Sorry – the story has come up here, but I couldn’t find it – my Hungarian is still not good enough.

    It may not be a Munkacsy–pretty damn good painting, subject aside. Some real craftsmanship.

  42. Some1 :

    petofi :

    Do you have to be jewish to be disgusted by that? Probably, because the run-of-the-mill Hungarian couldn’t give a fig.
    Now THAT’S the disgusting part, Miss Some1. Wrap your logic around
    that.

    I know plenty of Hungarians who gave a fig about that, so you are wrong!!!! Some actually protested in front of Csatary’s place.I also know plenty of Hungarians who protest against anti-semitism, and anti-roma sentiments (you are familiar with the later)I also know plenty of Jews who are not nice, and who are criminals.
    It does not seem that you had any problem with the anti-Roma sentiments in Hungary. So, what does that makes you, a good Hungarian or a good Jew?
    THe bottom line is that Hungarians, regardless off ethnic, religious, and sexual background have some bad apples amongst them. Our problem is wit the government that seems to empower some of the worst in society.
    You also wrote that you are living in Budapest. Can you let me know what did you do exactly about the Csatary case? As I’ve mentioned I know some of those who were protesting, so maybe we have some mutual friends.
    ps.: I am not a “Miss”.

    I’m only half Hungarian as my mother was Serbian but I was born
    in Budapest. And, I’m certainly not an ‘observant’ jew (nothing to brag about really.) I certainly consider myself a citizen of Europe–something the mustachioed Hungarians should try on for size–and a citizen of the world. I chose to live in Budapest because I always loved the city; if it could survive two world wars and an uprising, I trust that it can overcome the effects of Orbanism in time, too.

    I have few friends, and I don’t care to belong to any group that’ll have me as a member…

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