Hungarian attitude toward losing: The Romanian-Hungarian football game

No, just to clarify the title of this post, the Hungarians didn’t really lose (they tied), but since they were so convinced that they would win, they considered the game a loss–and an unfair one at that.

As you all know by now, I don’t care about football and know next to nothing about it. Therefore today’s post is not going to be about the fine points of the match between the Romanian and the Hungarian national teams last night. This was the game that had to be played within closed gates as a punishment by the Fédération Internationale de Football Association (FIFA) for the Hungarian Football Association’s inability to discipline the unruly Hungarian fans whose favorite occupation is chanting antisemitic and in general racist epithets. This behavior is nothing new, but the Hungarian Football Association has never even tried to control the situation. Finally FIFA’s patience ran out. The occasion was a “friendly” meet between the Hungarian and the Israeli teams last August. I detailed the event and in the post embedded a video taken on the scene. In January of this year FIFA fined the Hungarian Football Association 35,000 euros and ordered a closed-gate game between Romania and Hungary. The Hungarians appealed and were turned down. They even attempted to have the case tried in a court that adjudicates controversies within the world of sports, but they were also turned down there.

So, the match took place in an empty stadium and the final score was 2:2. A great disappointment for the Hungarians because they were certain that they would win over the Romanians, whom they considered to be a weak team. I don’t know where this optimism came from because in the last thirty-two years the Hungarians were unable to win a single game against the Romanian national team. But as I said, I’m no expert; I know next to nothing about the strengths and weaknesses of these teams. What I would like to talk about here is the attitude of Hungarian commentators to the tie. I think it may explain a few things about the Hungarian psyche.

The Romanian-Hungarian football game, March 22, 2013In the background the empty seat / nb1.hu / photo Tam'as Sóki

Note the empty seats in the background / nb1.hu, photo Tamás Sikó

I should mention a few facts about the game itself. If I understand it correctly, there were two penalty kicks, one from the Romanian and the other from the Hungarian side. The match went into overtime, and the final Romanian goal was kicked in the ninety-second minute of the game.

Here are some comments from Hungarian sports journalists and the players themselves.

One of the first detailed analyses appeared a few minutes after the match was over. The title is telling: “It was in the ninety-second minute that the Romanians stole two points.”  A few minutes later: “We were unlucky: Instead of victory it is a tie against Romania.” The article itself reports that the Hungarian team played very well, but the Romanians “with fantastic luck in overtime managed to tie the game. It was a fluke!” So, the Hungarians were excellent, the Romanians were incredibly lucky, and the last goal was a fluke.

One of the players, Vilmos Vanczák, who actually scored the first goal, told the journalist of Nemzeti Sport that “we were very close to victory but unfortunately that little plus is still  missing in becoming a really great team.”  He belittled the opponents. He claimed that “we dominated the game all along. The two goals scored against us were the result of inattention. We led all through, but at the end victory slipped from our hands….. I expected a much better Romanian team…. At the next game in Romania we have a chance.” So, they were much better than their opponents but victory somehow eluded them.

The goalie, Gábor Kiráy, blamed the lack of an audience and the chanting of the fans in the stadium. “If we had had an audience, they would have helped us over the tipping point.” Coach Sándor Egervári said: “We lost two points after a game that had been won.” In my opinion, one either wins a game or doesn’t. You can’t have it both ways. Király admitted that he didn’t even see the ball when Alexandru Chipcio scored the final goal of the game. Yet he tried to find excuses: it was windy and the ground was wet. Mind you, the opponents played under exactly the same conditions.

By this afternoon some of the Hungarian players came to the conclusion that neither Romanian goal was legit. Both had been preceded by misconduct. So, the Hungarian team should have won 2:0. Molcsapat.hu intimated that the referee was partial to the Romanians. The journalist talked about the “friendly disposition” of the German Wolfgang Stark that allowed the two Romanian goals.

The Romanians seem to be more generous toward their opponents. Adrian Mutu, who kicked the Romanian penalty goal, was very satisfied. “We must be satisfied with the results because we played against a very good team. … It will be difficult to win against the Hungarians in Bucharest.” HVG wrote that, according to Romanian sports reports, the Romanian national team was very lucky not to lose to the Hungarians. Romanian sports journalists, in fact, sharply criticized Coach Victor Piturca. Gazeta Sporturilor called the last goal “miraculous.”

Perhaps the Romanians were simply lucky, perhaps objectively the Hungarians were the better team. But, on the day, the Hungarians couldn’t pull it off. And that, in sports, is all that counts. That and, oh yes, sportsmanship.

The Hungarians will be going to Istanbul to play against the Turkish national team that just won against Andorra. The general Hungarian attitude toward this game is optimistic. Nemzeti Sport claims that “for the Turks Hungarians will pose the real challenge.” It will be during this game that the true strength of the Turkish team will be tested. On the website readers can vote on what they think the outcome of the game will be. Over 50% of those who voted are certain that the Hungarians will win. And here we go again.

56 comments

  1. Well, as the only self-confessed football fan on HS, I guess it falls to me to post the first comment!

    Éva – the post-match comments you quote above are absolutely typical of those following any game, especially one involving penalties or last-minute goals (ask any fan of a team who has just played Manchester United!). You may be right in what you say about the Hungarian sports media, etc, but no football fan reading this would draw the same conclusions. Their most likely response would be to yawn and say “here we go again…”

    And games ‘behind closed doors’ are generally disliked by players because of the absence of fans and atmosphere of a normal game. It is difficult for the players to get as motivated and to stay as focussed as they would if playing in front of a crowd, it feels more like a practice game.

    As for the Hungarian’s expectations, this is actually quite realistic, as the national side has been steadily improving over the last few years and was on the verge of qualifying for the last international tournament. If things continue in this way, I would to expect Hungary to qualify for either the World or European cups in the next few years (or possibly both!).

    If there’s one positive thing Orbán could to do for Hungary, it could be to give them a half-decent football team.

    And just to pop into the football fan’s Pedant’s Corner for a minute – it’s usually ‘draw’, not tie and ‘extra time’, not overtime.

  2. I am proud to say that I know a thing or two about soccer. For that matter I did attend hundreds of games as a child with my father who is a great fan of soccer himself. I did attend whole lot more with some of my friends from high school later on. We did go to almost all the International games in the Stadion. Even at that time there were football hooligans, although it is not even close to what is out there now. As I recall it was mainly the Fradi group that stirred up most of the problem, but the zsidozas was uncommon. I seen MTK, Vasas, Fradi, Dozsa games (I had a diverse group of friends) but we stayed out of trouble, and it was only a small group at the time who dared to insult others so openly, so viciously. Hungary deserved to play the game without its fan club, and what happened outside the gates while the game was going on made this even more important. THe same crowd that Fidesz called upon to protect their headquarters from the “unruly” university students a week ago, this time only went as far as chanting Dirty Jews, Dirty Gypsies slogans, throwing “sieg heil”, and throwing empty beer bottles at the police. The friendly soccer supporters also played games that encouraged everyone to jump up and down in the cold, by chanting “who doesn’t jump is a dirty Romanian” (it actually rhymes in Hunagrian “Ki nem ugral, budos Roman”.
    How can anyone, any soccer player, any sport supporter want to see or hear these animals?

  3. “How can anyone, any soccer player, any sport supporter want to see or hear these animals?”

    None of us ‘soccer’ fans do. This has nothing to do with football, they just use the game as a rallying point and an excuse.

    In England we had a terrible ‘football hooligan’ problem in the 70s and 80s, but over the last two decades we have managed to reduce it to almost nothing. So where did all those ‘football fans’ who caused all the trouble go? Did the attendance at games go down now so many ‘fans’ could no longer enjoy themselves? Strangely, no, attendance at games increased year on year once the violence was forced out. It turned out that those ‘football’ hooligans were just hooligans, after all, not the least interested in football.

  4. The tolerance of the authorities of the behavior of the fans at the H-I game was inexcusable. Unfortunately questionable expressions of vox populi is widespread in and outside of Europe. As the NYT reported o March 23, 2012 and the article in FP blog. blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/03/23/tk wrote:

    “Yellow- and black-clad Beitar fans are notorious for their hatred toward Arabs. They frequently chant “Death to Arabs” during matches, and last year fans recorded themselves teaching racist chants to their children. The suspect in a recent price tag attack claimed that “he vandalized the school to avenge the Beitar Jerusalem soccer team’s loss to two Arab teams two weeks ago.” The team, which used to be sponsored by Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud Party, has been described as “magnet for right-wing extremists” and criticized for not hiring Arab players.”

    But then this is a problem they have to deal with. Draw your own conclusion.

  5. My conclusion is that you appear to be trying to twist Éva’s article round to some anti-Semitic agenda of your own.

    But, in the process, I fear I may have slipped into some weird parallel universe where nothing makes sense.

    Least of all your posts.

  6. Csaba K. Zoltani :
    But then this is a problem they have to deal with. Draw your own conclusion.

    The Hungarian hooligans are anti-Semites, the Jewish hooligans are anti-Arab, the Tutsi hooligans are anti-Hutu … and I hate dentists immensely.

    Zoltani! Can you please, just once, surprise us with something that at least remotely resembles to an opinion? Pretty please?

  7. Csaba K. Zoltani :
    The tolerance of the authorities of the behavior of the fans at the H-I game was inexcusable. Unfortunately questionable expressions of vox populi is widespread in and outside of Europe. As the NYT reported o March 23, 2012 and the article in FP blog. blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2012/03/23/tk wrote:
    “Yellow- and black-clad Beitar fans are notorious for their hatred toward Arabs. They frequently chant “Death to Arabs” during matches, and last year fans recorded themselves teaching racist chants to their children. The suspect in a recent price tag attack claimed that “he vandalized the school to avenge the Beitar Jerusalem soccer team’s loss to two Arab teams two weeks ago.” The team, which used to be sponsored by Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud Party, has been described as “magnet for right-wing extremists” and criticized for not hiring Arab players.”
    But then this is a problem they have to deal with. Draw your own conclusion.

    I suggest you post this on a blog that deals with Israel. Maybe you didn’t realize, but this blog deals with Hungary. It’s called Hungarian Spectrum, not Israeli Spectrum.

  8. Paul does have a point, because the comments are really typical of any match wher point have been lost in tha very last minute, and the Hungarian team really played somewhat better than the Romanians most of the time, although I think the improvement of the Hungarian national team is the result of several years of development, and most of the really good players have been playing in soccer leagues that are way ahead of the Hungarian one. One really should draw a distinction between regular soccer fans and so called ‘ultras’, who basically fall into the category of football hooligans.

  9. Győr Calling!

    An!!!!

    He’s an irre-dentist!

    Very clever An!

    (He’s shown ante-dentist behaviour on here before!)

    Regards

    Charlie

  10. The comments of the players and the manager are no different from the average that you’d expect post match. The stupid allusions come from the journalists or “commentators” afterwards, who want to take this beyond a game of football.

    Good to see that Eva has used the term football rather than soccer :-). You just need to ditch the “overtime” and “tied” references now, in favour of injury time (or added minutes) and a score draw or non score draw. Then you can say “job done”.

  11. Győr Calling!

    I think some are missing the point.

    The raison d’être of Eva’s analysis is explained in her sentence: “I think it may explain a few things about the Hungarian psyche.”

    And it does. It’s an allegory – Hungarians show little regard or respect for Romanians, except for their ‘Little Hungarians’ the other side of the border – who don’t even want to live in Hungary.

    And of course it’s at national level too – with the Nyiro farce.

    The Romanians are much more sporting.

    And btw Eva – I loved those ‘mis-writes’ – ‘overtime’ and ‘tie’!

    Better than ‘crates space’; ‘intresting game’; ‘boydun well’; ‘won no silverware’;’hit the woodwork’; and all the other technical jargon football fans like to use!

    Wonderful – really gets up their noses!!

    Regards

    Charlie

  12. John Takacs :

    Good to see that Eva has used the term football rather than soccer :-) . You just need to ditch the “overtime” and “tied” references now, in favour of injury time (or added minutes) and a score draw or non score draw. Then you can say “job done”.

    Thank you for the football vocabulary in English but I’m not sure whether I want to learn the ins-and-outs of the game. Too busy with the Hungarian Spectrum.

  13. Eva,
    My comments were intended to be very much tongue in cheek 🙂
    And of course if the Americans/Canadians etc. hadn’t messed up English over the years, there wouldn’t be a problem! 🙂

  14. Paul :
    “How can anyone, any soccer player, any sport supporter want to see or hear these animals?”
    None of us ‘soccer’ fans do. This has nothing to do with football, they just use the game as a rallying point and an excuse.
    In England we had a terrible ‘football hooligan’ problem in the 70s and 80s, but over the last two decades we have managed to reduce it to almost nothing. So where did all those ‘football fans’ who caused all the trouble go? Did the attendance at games go down now so many ‘fans’ could no longer enjoy themselves? Strangely, no, attendance at games increased year on year once the violence was forced out. It turned out that those ‘football’ hooligans were just hooligans, after all, not the least interested in football.

    Paul, My point was (as you missed it) a response to this: “The goalie, Gábor Kiráy, blamed the lack of an audience and the chanting of the fans in the stadium. “If we had had an audience, they would have helped us over the tipping point.” The Hungarian soccer fans (not all) blames the injustice committed against item by not allowing their their fans in the stadium. THe reason why their fans were not allowed to the stadium is the consistent hooligan behaviour. In every single International game you can hear similar chants from the Hungarian fans, just like the the chant that was going on outside the gates. (My quotes are above.) Kiraly did not say that he is sorry that the audience regularly behaves this way, so they were not allowed to attend, he did not mention that there is a huge problem with the Hungarian audience, but shifts the blame in a general direction that actually puts fuel on the fire. He could of made a great point but he missed the chance. I am sure the Enlish palyers do not miss the fans wit the behaviour described above!

  15. Csaba K. Zoltani: I think you have to start over reading the article and the previous reference Eva linked. Yes, there are other instances of bad behaviour related to sport everywhere. Bu everywhere else the behaviour is punished too, the society is disgusted by it, and the sport clubs try to dissociate themselves form such behaviour. Not in your book, and not in Hungary. If you do not see a problem with what is going on, if you do not see the problem with the hooliganism in Hungary, well you either one of them or you should have them over in your house for dinner.

  16. Győr Calling!

    Thanks Some1 very funny. (Never watched it!)

    Makes An’s rejoinder even funnier!

    Regards

    Charlie

  17. CharlieH :
    Győr Calling!
    Thanks Some1 very funny. (Never watched it!)
    Makes An’s rejoinder even funnier!
    Regards
    Charlie

    Yes, Charlie, I was referring to that Seinfeld episode Some1 posted 🙂

  18. I apologize but I am kidnapping the blog for a moment, as this is very important, especially because of people like Csaba K. Zoltani and similar(living in denial) minded individuals on the blog.
    Probably many of you aware the young students opposition demonstrations (Eva wrote about this on March 9th and 10th), but not many of you aware what followed after. Laszlo Kover, speaker of the house in open forums accused the young university participants with being communists, and that the he (Kover) fought against their daddy for democracy under the communist regime. What it really means that he accused the parents of the demonstrators of being communist. (“a most tüntető fiatal baloldaliak “apukái” ellen követelt demokráciát, azzal az igen nagy különbséggel, hogy akkor kommunista diktatúra volt, most pedig demokrácia van.”)
    Well, couple of the fathers did not take this too lightly and published open letters to Kover. It is impossible to translate to English one of them on a way that you would get a good sense how is being said what is said.
    (Here is a link to the whole article wit the letters. Paul, you should and must show it to your wife. Csaba, I would like to bring your attention to the photograph of Kover “free entry card to the MSZP building”.)
    One of the father who wrote the letter is by the way Konok Peter, and if my intuition is not mistaking, he is a historian and a real phd recipient who focuses on left-wing radicalism. (http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konok_Péter). At any case he puts Kover to its place reminding him where Kover literally came from. I used the help of google translation to help me with this literally translation:

    “Dear Laci,
    you you big bunch of sh*t, who hides behind his roast mutton odor moustache, if you do not mind from me this little euphemism, you succeeded to make me angry, really, although mostly I just laugh at you. Today my daughter turned 18 years old and she used to protest against you. She is able to assess your weight. She also found you way to easy. And you should have no illusions, you’ll also measure the weight of your actions, you piece of hoe handle stuffed into a pork intestine, when you get the bill. You’ll get it. By the way: I am a father of a protester child, who was dismissed from the pioneers in seventh grade (there was nothing political about this), and I was never a member of the Young Communist League. It was never mandatory [to become a member of Young Communists], and I was like, I do not need a membership book in which THEY were (including you) calling me comrade. At that time you were Young Communist Secretary, then as the colleague of the Central Committee and the Youth Research Institute you wrote the mood reports about us, from there in 1986 – I was in high school at the time – you transferred to the Institute of Social Policy at the Central Commission of the Communist Party .

    I already graduated, in 1988, when you’ became the Vice President of MISZOT. The other deputy was a certain Ferenc Gyurcsany. So what you’re saying, you mentally handicapped career rat ? Oh, my other daughter is five years old. She is not going to protests yet. I think by the time she’ll be 18 years old, you will become only an despicable, creepy little brown spot in the history books. And one visit per month will be allowed. ”

    (Note from the publisher: Kövér ‘s grandfather received the “Order of Merit for the Socialist Nation” [Wrongly I accused his father before.] Kover, his father and his brother were all members also of the Hungarian Communist Party. [By the way, this was not mandated, this is something someone could choose!])
    http://tinyurl.com/bqrfngh

  19. Some1, thank you for posting this. In particular the factual message of the two letters should be publicised more (who exactly was so close to the Communists). Whether the style will help win undecided people over (or even more to make believers of Fidesz to reconsider their opinions), I am not so sure. (Perhaps Paul should show his wife only some “clean” version of the letters 🙂 ).

  20. One of the great surprises to me when we returned to Budapest was that the citizenry were no literate. Yes, they could read, but they did not read the books that are the substance of self-education, and that all adults–intelligent adults–should have consulted on their own.
    Largely, these books are the 100 Great Books that Mortimer Adler talked and wrote about:
    Shakespeare, Montaigne, Plato, St. Augustine, the Bible, The Way of Life, etc.

    How could this be? I thought. What about all those 2nd hand bookshops in town–wasn’t that a sign of wide and intelligent reading? I guess not, or Hungarians would not be so easily fooled by wild accusations and rash promises; or would come to a rational decision on what kind of government and leaders rule in such a slap-dash, haphazard fashion.

    The style is the man (or the government) itself. Without being able to judge the various policies, an average, well-read person would know that no respectable government would
    do what this one has done (on several occasions); or that a leader would comport himself with the total lack of respect of others that Orban has done. Finis. Nothing more need be said.

    But sadly, the people are easily swayed by fantastical notions of Hungarian, heroic destiny
    and Hungarian superiority–nonsense. Well-balance, well-read, people would know this.
    Unfortunately, the Church plays their part in supporting this nonsense because of the advantageous (though very toxic) relationship between it and the Fidesz government.

    But, in essence, the people are not capable of judging. They’re easily confused and Orban takes every possible occasion to do just that. So, for instance, when the hubbub over the
    fourth amendments where at their peak, Orban introduces the ‘fight for the regis’.
    Ridiculous. Where was this ‘fight’ 3 years ago if it was so important? It’s purely a strategy
    to distract and win over the populace. It’s ever so sad that it works.

  21. Petofi: “Illiterate Majority”
    Same feeling. I asked people on my visit, how they feel.
    All complained, and spoke of the hopelessness.
    I asked them if they read self-educating books/newspapers.
    Referring to the exhaustion, they admitted zero reading.
    However, they can crowd into Jobbik halls every evening to listen to those hardly veiled inciting lectures, chasing the desired liberating empowerment.

  22. Result of local by-election in Dunakeszi (tiny sample, opinion of 1133 people only)

    Did not vote: 63.1%

    Fidesz: 18.3%

    Egyutt2014: 8.1%
    MSzP: 5.0%

    Jobbik: 5.5%

  23. Local by-elections.

    Dunakeszi: Fidesz 563, Együtt 249, Jobbik 168, MSZP 153.
    Szentendre: Fidesz 311, MSZP 206, Társ. az élh. Szentendréért 148 (these seemingly civil organisations are usually just there to take away votes from the major parties, at this moment I am not sure from which party), Jobbik 53, LMP 28.

    This shows that the left is currently dead in the water.

    Without Dunakeszi and Szentendre and similar suburban places there is NO way they can win (as if they don’t win here, it’s even less possible to win in Sopron and Veszprém counties, in Bács-Kiskun etc.).

    These were small elections sure, with low turnout (but there is no minimum tournout anyway under the new rules), but still, they were a nice polling opportunity.

    It does not matter that Együtt was stronger than MSZP in Dunakeszi, this difference is really significant only in the relationship between MSZP and Együtt.

    Also, note that Jobbik is strong and significant.

    Fidesz’ appeal among the majority (ordinary people) and it’s election machinery are an order of magnitude better than that of either MSZP or Együtt.

    Sad, but true.

  24. Also note how Jobbik is strong in Dunakeszi. Dunakeszi is suburban (just outside, north of Budapest on the Pest side), but is a poorer place than Szentendre (which is on the opposite side of the Danube and is somewhat farther out from Budapest), so I guess the downturn affects people of Dunakeszi (many of its citizens moved there during the boom years) better. And discontent manifests itself in the extreme right it seems.

  25. Comparison of the results in the same Dunakeszi district in 2010 and 2013:

    2010 2013

    Voters 2950 3070

    Did not vote 59.9% 63.1%

    Fidesz 15.6% 18.3%
    Jobbik 5.3% 5.5%
    Others 19.3% 13.1%

  26. tappanch :
    Result of local by-election in Dunakeszi (tiny sample, opinion of 1133 people only)
    Did not vote: 63.1%
    Fidesz: 18.3%
    Egyutt2014: 8.1%
    MSzP: 5.0%
    Jobbik: 5.5%

    I would like to bring into everyone attention that what I have been afraid of long time by now, just happened. I did ask a few days ago, how can we ensure that the elections will be monitored not only in the voting boots, on voting day, but beforehand. It was reported that flyers were delivered prior to voting day to households in Dunakeszi. On Friday evening smear leaflets were deliver to the household of Dunakeszi. Police was called in and two youngster was questioned by the police. THe two person admitted that they were delivering the smear campaign by Fidesz mandate. THe police chief of the city requested the police chief of the county to take the necessary steps. Why, you may ask? Because the police chief of the city have attended the FIDESZ’s campaign closing event. hahahaha I am wondering who counted the ballots?

    THis was reported in 168ora. I am sure you will not find the report in Hetivalasz or on MTI.
    http://www.168ora.hu/itthon/durvul-fidesz-kampanya-dunakeszin-111829.html

  27. Comparison of the results in the same Szentendre district between 2010 and 2013:

    2010; 2013

    Voters 2218; 2230

    Did note vote 66.5%; 66.5%

    Fidesz 16.9%; 13.9%
    Jobbik 3.9%; 2.4%
    Others 14.7%; 17.1%

    So while Fidesz has strengthened in Dunakeszi in the last two and a half years,

    its support has become weaker in Szentendre.

  28. Tappanch: thanks for the info.

    It is consistent with the rule of thumb that the less people the better it is for Fidesz (whose voters are extremely discplined, no matter what) and the more voters, the better it is for the left (provided they can unite).

    But note also that turnout does not matter in the new system so if lefties or undecideds stay home, it is their problem, as Fidesz and Jobbik will vote no matter what. They prepare and organise and execute. Thw way it should be done.

    Fidesz – with all that has happaned since 2010 – maintained its exact support, in fact it increased it.

    Also, the lethargy of the left is staggering, and does not bode well for the future.

    Fideszniks, when itheylost in 2002, were crazy with activitty and they haven’t stopped ever since. They are burning with passion just like Jobbik supporters.

    It is really difficult to reconcile with our experience in Budapest, but, apparently, people are happy with what we have in Hungary and are coming back for more.

  29. @preg

    if the US stock market falls (tomorrow or in a month – I have no idea),

    EUR/HUF can easily go to 370, which might result in Fidesz’s downfall.

  30. tappanch :
    @preg
    if the US stock market falls (tomorrow or in a month – I have no idea),
    EUR/HUF can easily go to 370, which might result in Fidesz’s downfall.

    It does not matter. Fidesz will blame it on others and not on themselves.

    http://www.budapesttimes.hu/2013/03/24/no-easing-way-out/

    The Forint went to 308. Without the Cyprus impact, it would have been 320 at least. The EUR became weaker against the USD.

  31. tappanch :

    Comparison of the results in the same Szentendre district between 2010 and 2013:

    2010; 2013

    Voters 2218; 2230

    Did note vote 66.5%; 66.5%

    Fidesz 16.9%; 13.9%
    Jobbik 3.9%; 2.4%
    Others 14.7%; 17.1%

    So while Fidesz has strengthened in Dunakeszi in the last two and a half years,

    its support has become weaker in Szentendre.

    Szentendre results are significant. Szentendre is one of the Fidesz strongholds. Even the Arrow Cross movement pretty well started here.

  32. shu shu shu :
    The Gyula Szekfu study on Pal Tomori was eye opening.

    Klebelsberg tried to dumb down the citizens, but some earlier students from the Deak era have still shined.
    Szegfu abandoned the Napkelet. Sought better media.

    Szekfu alluded to Tomori’s 20th century avatar on p. 594. Who did he refer to?

  33. Eva S. Balogh :

    tappanch :
    Comparison of the results in the same Szentendre district between 2010 and 2013:
    2010; 2013
    Voters 2218; 2230
    Did note vote 66.5%; 66.5%
    Fidesz 16.9%; 13.9%
    Jobbik 3.9%; 2.4%
    Others 14.7%; 17.1%
    So while Fidesz has strengthened in Dunakeszi in the last two and a half years,
    its support has become weaker in Szentendre.

    Szentendre results are significant. Szentendre is one of the Fidesz strongholds. Even the Arrow Cross movement pretty well started here.

    I am living in Szentendre. I did not know there was a by-election. Do you think they kept it hush-hush.

  34. tappanch :
    @Ron,
    The by-election was in precinct 4 (4 sz. vk.) only

    Yes I know. I was there in Püspökmajor lakótelepet today. I was buying bread. They have an excellent bakery there. I did not notice anything. Also for your information. The area is mainly flats.

    Btw about Arrow Cross Movement. I am not surprised. The Magyar Garda used to hold their “special” gatherings in Szentendre and in Pomaz.

  35. Ron :

    tappanch :
    @preg
    if the US stock market falls (tomorrow or in a month – I have no idea),
    EUR/HUF can easily go to 370, which might result in Fidesz’s downfall.

    It does not matter. Fidesz will blame it on others and not on themselves.
    http://www.budapesttimes.hu/2013/03/24/no-easing-way-out/
    The Forint went to 308. Without the Cyprus impact, it would have been 320 at least. The EUR became weaker against the USD.

    Calm yourself, folks. The good people who invested over 10 billion euros in Hungarian paper will not let the currency fall
    appreciably and for a long time. You

  36. muttdamon :

    I think the high number of votes for the Together ’14 is huge news and has very significant message.

    I think so too and I hope MSZP gets the message. They did miserably in both places.

  37. When I wrote this post I didn’t know that Hungary hasn’t won a game against Turkey in the last twenty-nine years. Tonight is supposed to be the night!

  38. ABout the people not voting. I think the left should pull a similar plan as Obama did in 2008, and start mobilize the undecided. THose are the people who do not go out to vote. THey do not trust any of the parties no more. THe problem is that I still did not read or see any programs and ideas about how will they try to turn around the current situation. Everyone is sick and tired of empty promises, like “we will make it better”. Start lobbying with What, Who and When.

  39. Eva,

    We did just this previous fall. What you’re referencing is that we hasn’t beaten them in Istanbul for 29 years.

    Sorry, but you really shouldn’t write on the football itself if you don’t like it. You’re observations on the hooligans are spot on though.

    By the way, we weren’t convinced we would win. I was personally convinced it was gonna be a boring 0-0 or we loose, instead it became a very interesting game and a very unfortunate goal in the extra time after a game when we did a lot better than our opponent. Just imagine how you would feel if the opposition was in the lead weeks before the election and then Fidesz saved to a draw because e.g. Tibor Szanyi just couldn’t keep his mouth shut.

    Reiterating Paul’s point, don’t mix the ultra’s with the supporters let alone the players. Király said they were missing their fans. Well if I had been at home and it hadn’t been a closed game I’d have been there. So give sportsmen right after a very bitter ending a little break and assume they were just missing me.

    By the way the Romanian ultras are no better, see the recent flag burning (or just look up some banners from the past few years), it was a pleasure to see that the Romanian authorities acted against them, I wasn’t expecting it.

  40. Jano :

    Eva,

    We did just this previous fall. What you’re referencing is that we hasn’t beaten them in Istanbul for 29 years.

    Sorry, but you really shouldn’t write on the football itself if you don’t like it. You’re observations on the hooligans are spot on though.

    Well, Jano, I don’t know whether you remember it right because every newspaper reported that it was in 1984 that Hungary won against Turkey.

    See this, but there are several others:

    http://www.origo.hu/sport/magyarfoci/20130325-a-valogatott-29-eve-nyeretlen-torokorszagban.html

  41. Look at the title, it says “in Turkey” not against “Turkey”.

    Hope this convinces you:

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