When I am either unfamiliar with a topic or have only bits and pieces of information that don’t make a coherent whole, I like to follow up. Since I didn’t remember all the details of the Hungarian decision to allow the East German tourists who refused to return to the German Democratic Republic to cross into Austria, I decided that I would reread Gyula Horn’s autobiography, Cölöpök (Piles).
It took me a little while to find the appropriate pages because the book has no table of contents. There are some chapter numbers but no chapter titles. Moreover, Horn jumps from topic to topic, and not necessarily in chronological order. Once I found it, however, the passage turned out to be full of interesting details.
Let’s start with the crucial question of whether the Soviet Union gave the Hungarians permission to allow the thousands of East Germans to cross into Austria. No, there was no permission. The Soviets were “informed on the day that the Hungarians opened the border for the East Germans to cross.” That was on September 10, 1989.
According to Horn, the Hungarian foreign ministry suspected that the Soviets already knew about the Hungarian decision, either directly through their intelligence forces in Hungary or from the leadership of the GDR. Because the East German party and government leaders had been informed by the Hungarians of their decision on August 29. The East Germans insisted that Hungary fulfill its obligation of a 1969 treaty between Hungary and East Germany by which Hungary was supposed to force East German citizens to return to their homeland. It was this treaty that the Hungarians were going to suspend. Why suspend instead of abrogate? Because in the latter case Hungary would have been obliged to wait three months before they would have been free to let the Germans go. And the number of East Germans in Hungary had already swelled to the thousands by then.
The East German side insisted on a meeting with Miklós Németh, the prime minister, and Gyula Horn. The Germans were still hoping that the Hungarians could be cajoled, blackmailed, persuaded, take your pick, to return the East German citizens who were staying in the West German embassy, in student hostels, in camping facilities. But when the two politicians got to Berlin, the hosts were told about the suspension of the 1969 treaty.
If Gorbachev had wanted to prevent the escapade of the Germans across the Austro-Hungarian border he had more than a week to send word to the Hungarians warning them against such a step. But although Horn gives a very detailed account, there is not a word about any visit from the Soviet ambassador to the Foreign Ministry.
The relationship between Horn and Eduard Shevardnadze was cordial, and in the previous year or two the Soviets usually took the Hungarian more liberal side against the noisiest hard-liners–Romania, East Germany, and Czechoslovakia. When, shortly after the momentous event, Horn met Shevardnadze in New York, the Soviet foreign minister expressed his agreement with the Hungarian solution. In fact, he asked Horn to estimate the number of dissatisfied East Germans who would gladly leave and was duly impressed with Horn’s answer that the number might be one or two million.
Horn admits that there was some fear that Gorbachev might be pressured by others in the government and party to intervene. After all, the existence of an East Germany within the Soviet bloc might be considered of paramount interest to Moscow. Horn adds that he never feared military intervention because he knew that Gorbachev was not in favor of any kind of military action. But he did consider possible economic or political action, although elsewhere in the book Horn mentions that by that time the Soviet Union was in such dire economic straits that they were unable to fulfill their delivery obligations to Hungary.
Horn outlines the different ideas the Hungarians entertained over time, but he claims they never contemplated sending the East Germans back home. When there were only a few hundred escapees, they offered them refugee status in Hungary which they categorically refused. Then the German and the Hungarian governments came up with a plan that in the middle of the night in great secret a large German plane would land in Budapest and the East Germans would be smuggled onto the plane. But soon enough that idea was abandoned because the East Germans continued to arrive in greater and greater numbers, not so much from East Germany as from Yugoslavia where they had spent their holidays. Once they got to Hungary, they refused to continue northward. Something had to be done.
It was at this point that Németh and Horn secretly visited Bonn and talked to Chancellor Helmut Kohl and Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher. They outlined the difficulties and promised that a solution would be found. A few days later when the decision was made to open the border, Horn phoned Genscher and asked him to send his undersecretary to Budapest immediately to begin serious negotiations about the details of the border opening. Genscher kept repeating that “this is fantastic, we never in our wildest dreams imagined such a brave and humane step.” The undersecretary arrived overnight and was told about the details of the operation. The reach of the East German intelligence services worried Horn, and he asked the Germans not to send cipher telegrams. Only handwritten notes by courier.
It was around 6 p.m. on September 10 that Horn gave an interview on MTV in which announced the government’s decision to open the border between Austria and Hungary. In his book he added: “Naturally I did not know at that time that with this step we began the road toward the unification of the two states and with it a new chapter in the history of Europe.”
From Horn Gyula to Orban Victor: the Judeo-Christian idea of Progress is no longer operational in Hungary; and it has been suspended indefinitely by Kerenyi….
I think your spell-checker got you in paragraph 6, Éva – “escapade”?
What’s wrong with it?
@Eva: I’m wondering, is this just his own account or do external sources confirm all this (to your knowledge)?
I assumed you meant ‘escape’?
Right now I have only Horn’s book but I assume that the topic does have some literature. The one I remember is that Miklós Németh years later complained that he also played an important role but that Horn took all the credit.
In Horn’s autobiography he claims that it was him who came to the conclusion that there was only one solution: open the border and he phone Németh to tell him his plan, According to Horn, Németh got together as many people from the cabinet as he managed to find under such short notice. After some discussion the government accepted Horn’s arguments and plans. Whether this was exactly how it happened I don’t know but Németh didn’t ever say that Horn was wrong.
I could look around a little to find more material.
“If Gorbachev had wanted to prevent the escapade of the Germans across the Austro-Hungarian border…”
That should be the “escape.” An escapade is an adventure, even a daring adventure, but it has no implication of escaping…
The link of “escapade” to “escape” is merely etymological. It no more means escape today than enormity will mean enormousness (rather than monstrousness) tomorrow: it still does, but it’s on the way out…
Sorry, I stick to my original wording. I know the difference between “escape” and “escapade.” I’m not illiterate but I don’t think that it was an escape. The Hungarian government opened the borders and therefore no one had to escape from Hungary. It was from East Germany they escaped.
Hungarian refugees in 1956 when they crossed the border illegally they “escaped” in the true sense of the word. Or later those Hungarians who refused to return from their trips to the west. They also escaped from Hungary. What happened in September 1989 was entirely different. In some way it was a wild adventure what escapade means because no one knew how it would end. This was true about the East Germans as well as the Hungarian officials. At the end it turned out alright.Luckily.
MAGYAR JUSTITIA BIZOTTSÁG (SZÓRÓLAPJA)
MEGEMLÉKEZÉS HORN GYULÁRÓL
Nem szívesen teszem, de nem hallgathatok tovább! Az elhunytakról “vagy jót, vagy semmit”, mondja az ismert közmondás, viszont Horn Gyuláról jót nem tudok mondani, de a semmit sem választhatom, mert megítélésem szerint, amit most egyesekből Horn halála kiváltott, az átlépte az emberi tűréshatár küszöbét!
Az még csak érthető, hogy Mesterházy könnyfacsaró szavakkal ecsetelte, hogy számára és pártja számára mit jelentett Horn, hiszen egy elvakult bolseviktól mást nem lehetett várni, de az sem kizárt, hogy a szokatlan hőség zavarta meg az agyműködését. Az viszont a meglepetés erejével hatott, hogy a parlament többségétől kezdve, számos szervezet és megszámlálhatatlanul sok (ismert) közéleti személyiség szaggatta meg köntösét és szórta a hamut a fejére mérhetetlen fájdalmában, már-már utánozva az észak-koreai gyászolókat, akik közül sokan még a dísztér betonját is megrongálták, addig verték a fejükkel elkeseredésük jeléül.
Nem vitatható, hogy Horn Gyula tehetséges tanuló volt, az Oleg Kosevoj intézetben egy év alatt(!) sajátította el a négy éves gimnáziumi anyagot, középfokú vizsgát tett orosz nyelvből, sikeresen abszolválta az érettségit is, miközben – mint ifjú kommunista – agitációs feladatokat végzett a lakosság körében. 1950-ben beiskolázták Rosztovba, az ottani Pénzügyi Főiskolára, ahol rátermettségének következtében a rosztovi magyar tanulók vezetőjévé nevezték ki. Ő tartotta a kapcsolatot az illetékes magyar és szovjet szervekkel. Írásbeli vagy szóbeli jelentéseket adott tanulótársairól, és alighanem elégedettek voltak vele, mert tanulmányai befejeztéig megtartották ebben a pozíciójában, és 1954-ben vörös diplomával tért haza.
Hasonló magyar elöljáró-féleség “működött” Leningrádban is, ott a műszaki és híradó tisztek elöljárója volt Hersiczky Lajos alezredes és Németh Pál híradó főhadnagy (III/III-as beépített ügynök), ők ketten jelentgettek haza, és többek között jelentették, hogy Bukor Miklós százados “égbekiáltó” rágalmat hangoztatott a selejtes szovjet árukról és az árleszállítási stiklikről, amiért Bukor századost hazarendelték, lefokozták, vagyonától megfosztották és 3 évi börtönbüntetésre ítélték.
Bizonyítékok hiányában nem írhatunk egyes rosztovi magyar diákok hazarendelésének okairól vagy ügyük elindítójáról, de az ismert volt, hogy ott is voltak hasonló jellegű “lemorzsolódások”.Hazatérte után, Horn Gyula Vésztőre vonult be katonának, és egy “gyorstalpaló” tartalékos tiszti tanfolyamon alhadnagyi rendfokozatot kapott, sőt a zászlóalj kommunista ifjúsági szervezetének a titkára lett. 1956-ban önként jelentkezett a pufajkásokhoz, és az oroszokkal együtt segítette Kádár uralmának megszilárdítását. A rendszerváltozás után azt állította, hogy behívták a karhatalmi ezredbe, de hazudott, mert oda csak önként jelentkezőket vettek fel. Később azt is állította, hogy 1956 október 27-én a nemzetőrökhöz csatlakozott és Király Bélától kapott igazolványt, de ez is hazugság volt, mert Király még október 27-én kórházban volt és október 28-án este nevezte ki Nagy Imre a Nemzetőrség tiszteletbeli parancsnokává. Egy újabb változatként azt magyarázgatta, hogy az “ellenforradalmárok” által megölt Géza testvérét akarta megbosszulni, azért lett pufajkás. Valójában testvére halála előtt kb. két héttel öltötte magára a pufajkát (talán előre megérezte testvére halálát), de ismét hazudott, mivel testvérét egy szovjet csapatszállító gázolta halálra, mert a kerékpárjával figyelmetlenül kanyarodott az úttestre, ugyanis rosszul látott (az egyik szeme üvegből volt). Mindez ‘56 december 14-én történt, amikor a forradalmárokat már felszámolták a mérhetetlen nagy erő-és technikai fölényben lévő orosz csapatok (magyar pufajkások aktív segítségével).
Horn állításai, tagadásai, hazugságai vagy elhallgatásai nem könnyen bizonyíthatók, mert életrajzával és a beosztásaival kapcsolatos dokumentumok akkor tűntek el a hét lakat alatt őrzött Fekete sas utcai levéltárból, amikor miniszterelnökké avanzsált és a honvédelmi miniszter Keleti György egykori politikai tiszt volt, aki személyesen léptette elő a levéltár parancsnokát, Csárádi József alezredest ezredessé, akit a Horn féle szigorúan titkos dosszié eltűnése miatti botrány következtében, a hadbíróság 50 ezer forint bírsággal sújtotta, de nem sokkal később, közvetlen elöljárójától Korsós László dandártábornoktól, 500 ezer forint pénzjutalmat kapott.
Az MSZP láthatatlan kezei ügyesen támogatták Horn Gyulát, most pedig a minden hájjal megkent baloldal kiemelkedő államférfivé, demokratikus kommunistává, határsáv nyitogató külügyminiszterré, és megfontolt politikussá “varázsolta” át, a hazaáruló, nyilatkozataiban és írásaiban is primitív módon hazudozó (mellébeszélő), a szovjeteket és Kádárt fenntartás nélkül kiszolgáló, az állam pénzén luxuslakást építtető,- krónikus alkoholistát. A hazájáért semmit sem tett, Kádárért és a szovjetekért mindent! Ezzel jellemezhető Mesterházy szuperlatívuszban kifejtett minősítése Horn emberi nagyságáról és kimagasló vezetői tevékenységéről. Az NDK-s állampolgárok számára, a sokak által hangoztatott nyugati határunk megnyitását csak azok a 2-3 általános iskolát végzettek könyvelhetik el Horn kezdeményezésének, akik nem tudják, hogy a Varsói Szerződés tagállamának külügyminisztere, Gorbacsov intézkedése (utasítása) nélkül, még álmában sem gondolhatott hasonló akcióra, és szovjet kapcsolatai révén tisztában volt azzal, hogy mi várhat rá önálló kezdeményezés esetében, hiszen Beriját is (elsősorban és többek között) azért verette agyon Hruscsov, mert célzást tett a németek egységesítésére.
Ha a magyaroknak valakit igazán gyászolni kell, akkor azok a Kádár, Biszku, Marosán, Apró és a Horn-féle pufajkások által kivégzett forradalmárok, akik közül sokan még most is hátradrótozott kézzel, porladoznak a kádári lovas-rendőrök által összetaposott gödrökben és a túlélőknek vagy az igazságot ismerőknek kell szót emelni azért, hogy ne alázzák meg a magyar népet azzal, hogy állami temetést rendeznek a forradalmunk ellen fegyvert fogó, senkiházi számára, aki pufajkás hazaáruló létére miniszterelnök lehetett, és aki a parlamenti “NA ÉS (?)“-sel szembe köpte a magyar népet!
Talán még azt is megérjük, hogy három napos országos gyászt rendelnek el Horn halála miatt…
(Prof. Dr. Bokor Imre)
It is the very pinnacle of bad manners to inflict such a block of Hungarian text into an English blog. How typical of Fideszers to have no care for courtesy or etiquette.
I’d like to have Mr. Bokor Imre’s bona fides checked out…Hungarian doctorals being what they are in the post-Schmidt age.
If anyone is interested, there is a very good documentary originally shown on CNN, now available on YouTube that deals in detail with the events of ’88 and ’89 and has many of the participants talking about it. Episode 23: http://youtu.be/qpyCz3UyOJE
We were fresh out of college. My buddies rented a house in Biatorbagy, close to BP. They had few east-German frauleins in the house weeks before the escapade. Man, we hated to let them go. These girls knew the border will be open. This had to be planned for a longer time. I was always skeptical about Horn and Nemeth deciding on the spur of the moment.
It was very great watching them in their Trabants leaving to freedom.
I don’t want to take anything away from Horn or the others involved in the decisions they took. There is no doubt that it was done at great risk. However, on the question of did they have permission the answer depends on how you interprut things. My memory from interviews of Gorbachev is that they knew this was happening and he gave tacit yes by indicating he wouldn’t interfere. The Washington Post on Horn states that;
More poking about yielded this bit from Horst Teltschik.
I’ve not read the entire document (yet) but there were other tidbits in there such as a meeting with Nemeth and Helmet Cole in 84 where the Hungarian delegation told Cole that they were on a path towards economic reforms that needed his support as Hungary was just about bankrupt. (gee how times have changed ;-)).
I think the real question was; how was the rest of the regime going to react. According to Teltschik in 84 most of the Soviet leadership was so sick that they were being propped up by handlers. That and the economic situation embolden the block countries to push limits which then lead to the fence cutting.
It’s all quite a story and Gyula Horn certainly deserves recognition for his role in the entire drama but in the broader picture there were many players and every indication from the event in Poland and the man himself that Hungary would be given a free hand to do what it needed to do. Fortunately it decided on a different path than that of the GDR.
Yes, I think Eva’s right on this. Escapade is probably the better usage in this case. However, I think “posts” would be a better translation of “colopok”, although it’s a tough one to translate on it’s own without knowing Horn’s context. To most people the word “piles” on it’s own means “aranyer”, which probably does an injustice to Horn whether he had them or not.
Forgot to add the reference for those interested.
“It is the very pinnacle of bad manners to inflict such a block of Hungarian text into an English blog. How typical of Fideszers to have no care for courtesy or etiquette.”
If you wish, I will translate it for you for a small fee, say the income for one day of Ferenc Gyurcsány.
Although “Fuj!” is spelled ‘pfuj’, with a name like “petofi” presumably you you still speak a little Hungarian as well.
“I’d like to have Mr. Bokor Imre’s bona fides checked out…Hungarian doctorals being what they are in the post-Schmidt age.”
You are welcome to check Mr. Bokor Imre’s credentilals any time.
If you wish to be heard you might consider a different fee structure. Διαφορετικά, έχετε χάσει μόνο τις προσπάθειές σας.
Congatulations for using Greek letters in the Hungarian Spectrum, which is used mostly by English speaking Hungarians, or perhaps also by a few Hungarian speaking other nationals.
Levay Atilla: Chuck you, Farley. 🙂
Just to confirm what others have told as well: I was already here when all this took place in 1989 and I spoke to Rezsö Nyers, one of the old MSZMP leaders and a reformer like Horn, in 1991. He also confirmed that already in 1988 Gorbachov had made it very clear to them that the Breznjev doctrine was no longer valid and the USSR would not interfere, which Nyers and his reform minded colleagues in Poland and Hungary interpreted as the allowance to do as they saw fit. Hence, in spring 89 in Poland the first partly free elections in a communist country and the Mazowiecki-Solidarnosc government and in Hungary the Imre Nagy reburial and free travel to the West for Hungarians (which was the reason GDR youngster came to Hungary in the hope they would also be allowed to cross the border with Austria). So important as the decision to allow them out was, it was hardly the decision of Horn personally but very much in line of what the reform leadership of the MSZMP wanted.
If anything held them back and made them maneuver carefully, it was not the fear for a Moscow intervention, but the uncertainty what this would mean for the relations with their other neighbours and about what kind of society would come about if you opened up the system completely. Nyers, Horn, Németh and most of the other reformers definitely wanted and end to the one party state, but initially many of them were not in favor of a totally free Western type parliamentary system either (including freedom for radical right wing and nationalist forces, for example). They envisioned a kind of “third way,” whatever that was supposed to be (I think they didn’t know themselves). Of course, as soon as they had opened the Curtain, things developed in their own pace and direction and they were swept along (and partly away).
This from the schmuck who has inflicted the biggest blog entry in a foreign tongue. “What is allowed me is not allowed to you…”–the byword in the Fidesz world.
All this happened in the climate of Perestroika and Glasnost – and it would have been difficult for Gorbachev to intervene.
I believe impossible.
Horn was a hero of his time, in the right place at the right time.
He could only have been a hero due to the convergence of these political themes – but he was a hero nevertheless.
It was so satisfying to watch the downfall of the evil Erich Honecker – who could rewrite the truth better than Orban.
I followed the Gorbachev’s ‘Perestroika’ as Russia awoke from its ‘Brezhnev Sclerotic Sleep’ with fascination at the time.
I regret I did not follow it from a Hungarian perspective – as Hungary was a distant, unknown foreign country, of little interest to us Englanders!
Every time I visit Hungary it is my intention to visit Sopron – the scene of the Pan-European Picnic – which I believe was the follow up to Gyula Horn’s wire-cutting act.
Maybe I will have more determination after your article Eva.
Re Atilla’s contributions, Petofi; yes very discourteous..; I just ignore the troll – it’s useful that he contributes in Hungarian – which I can’t understand; I just scroll down and down…..; he’s (if it is a he) done it before; just a waste of Eva’s space; not worth the candle
Lévay Attila. He had every right to present another side of Horn. In ‘Cölöpök’, Horn does not even mention ’56. Yes, he was a communist, yet he single handedly destroyed that system. His life shows just how complicated people are. A dictatorship never knows where the next blow will come from.
Joe Simon – ‘every right’ is not in contention – just the method.
Was your comment “He single handedly destroyed the system……” a regret of yours?
And re your ‘dictatorship’ remark..
Orban better watch his back.
Many of my Hungarian acquaintances react with astonishment when I tell them that the west views Gorbachev as one of the principal players in the ending of the Cold War. For them, the main players were Reagan, Thatcher and (above all others, naturally!) Orban. My non-Hungarian acquaintances act with equal confusion when they see Ronnie’s statue in central Budapest apparently ambling towards the Soviet war memorial.
Entirely different history books in the schools of different countries mean polarised mutual incomprehension between peoples either side of Europe is as great as it has ever been (as we see in almost every issue to do with Hungary).
@Lévay Attila. This is a piece of garbage from a far-right lunatic. One should be suspicious after the first sentence. According to the “professor” Mesterházy is a devoted Bolshevik. After that it is not worth reading another line.
It wasn’t planned ahead of time, I’m pretty sure of that. The girls might have hoped that the border eventually will be opened but surely the frauleins couldn’t have known it for sure.
Since it seems that you all like talking about Horn and his role. Today I will continue with his recollections of 1956 in his autobiography
I agree with a number of comments about Soviet-Hungarian relations at the time. It is quite clear from Horn’s recollections that the Hungarian politicians were not really concerned about Soviet interference. On the other hand, Horn emphasizes their worries about the neighbors. He specifically mentions Romania and apparently its great friend at the time, Czechoslovakia.
Indeed. It wasn’t ‘permissiveness’ nor weakness on the Russian side. The grand plan was to allow for a gradual, controlled and limited liberalization of all Eastern-European regimes (Soviet Republics not included), to reinforce both the USSR’s economy and its international leadership. A strong intervention would have ruined the scheme.
My take is that there are no heroes among the communist leaders of the time: the more ‘liberal’ were just going along with Gorbachev’s geopolitical strategy. Had he been as successful in implementing his strategy as Brezhnev had been in the 70s (in implementing a very different one of course), Hungary & others would still be dictatorships, however ‘enlightened’, today.
Then the thing went totally out of control… 🙂
“Lévay Attila. He had every right to present another side of Horn.”
Yep, but only in the common language of the blog.
“Then the thing went totally out of control… 🙂 ”
That was the problem exactly!
Those were interesting times – to quote an old Chinese proverb. What I still don’t understand:
Everybody higher up must have known or should have known that the Communist system was breaking down, would have collapsed in a few years, not only economically but also ecologically and ideologically. Why didn’t our democratic leaders in the West prepare for it and tell us about these problems ? Everybody was talking about “the East catching up”, but that was a total lie – the gap between East and West was getting wider all the time and the East was only propped up by billions of Deutsche Mark and Dollars …
An East German who has become a very good friend of mine has told me his story:
Although he was just a “regular guy” it became impossible for him (and his wife and children …) to live in the GDR so in the summer of 1989 they made the big step – losing most of their possessions and a lot of money by coming over to West Germany.
If they had waited another six months it would have been much easier for them – but they just couldn’t take it any more ,,,
About that “Third way”:
Even in West Germany there were some politicians (mainly in the Social Democrat Party) who wanted that and were against an immediate reunion of Germany – it was the idea of chancellor Kohl (whom I couldn’t stand btw, but there he was right) to go forward with this – and he could somehow get it though even though Mrs Thatcher and others wee against it.
I believe that everybody involved was just a pawn – the time had come and nobody could stand in the way of this wave, those who tried were destroyed …
I have other memories, people from Romania (of German and Hungarian descent) who also became friends later told me unbelievable stories about life under Ceaucescu – something had to give!
PS and OT:
I have told this story so often that I lost count …
At the end of October 1989 my first wife and I travelled to the USA. We were supposed to fly from Düsseldorf to San Francisco, so we took a train to Düsseldorf the day before and in the evening heard on the tv news about the big earthquake and the closure of the airport …
Next morning at Düsseldorf airport we were told that we could fly to Los Angeles instead if we wanted and start or round trip from there – the car and a hotel room for the first night would be booked for us. So we agreed and travelled to the Grand Canyon, Las Vegas etc as many Germans like to do. Then one evening we entered a motel room somewhere between Yosemite and San Francisco (Napa Valley ?), I switched on the tv and went back to the car to get some things and heard my wife calling out:
They opened the Berlin Wall!
At fiirst I was sure she was watching a movie – but it was real, so we spent the evening glued to the tv …
When we came back to Germany in the middle of November everything had changed – it was the dawn of a new era for Germany and the whole world …
Yes. He has every right in ENGLISH! We have every right to tell him that this is an English language blog, and contrary what he believes, there are dozens of non-Hungarin speaking readers on this blog. I do post Hungarian entries often when I think it is important, and always include my sorry English translation. Now Levay can get his lazy head around to understand the principles of contributing on a foreign language blog, and get the courtesy to do so. Simple.
I think what was true for Orban is true for Horn. In 1989 there were not to much risk involved to take “daring” actions to bring down the iron curtain. There was no war at the border, and there was no personal risk involved in these actions. Actually, I often wonder ever since the burial of Imre Nagy if anyone “proofread” Orban’s speech. 1989 was side show for the masses. It was more a diplomatic game, than a “revolution”. It was a bargain, and some came out of it very wealthy, or with big profile. Restoring the countries was the big challenge, not the revolution. Unfortunately Hungary is lagging behind, and those who were the flag bearers are the ones who rolling the biggest obstacles in the way of the transformation. Orban for example brought back a China style communism, where the oligarch run the country for personal gains, and those who are behind them are just the little servants of this new style of dictatorship. THey just to much involved in it to call it what it is.
I just received my electric bill. There is a sentence highlighted in yellow by government fiat that I saved 1,100 forints last months thanks to our government.
Well, I saved my bill from a year ago. Then I paid 400 forints less than now.
In other words, minus 1,100 equals plus 400.
Gyurcsany’s main source of income is his dividends from his holding company the Altus Zrt. It would be cool if we all were millionaires but for that much you actually have to work. Sorry Attila.
By the way when Gyurcsany resigned all the moneys he received went to charities. Let’s watch Orban …
But don’t despair. There is money. I’m willing to pay you Gordon Bajnai’s 2009 salary when he was prime minister. Actually I will pay you his annual salary not just a one day. Do you want it?
Same wattage? Haha.
Forget his official salary, but his real income in “Tax Havens”, “Off-shore Companies”, etc..
And, please read the letter below written three years ago.
—– Original Message —–
From: Lévay Atilla
To: Wall Street Journal ; Washington Post ; Boston Globe ; Baltimore Sun ; Time ; The Globalist This Week ; NEWYORK POST ; Newsweek ; New York Times ; M.Heaton Cleveland Plain Dealer ; International Herald Tribune ; Habiba Alcindor ; Godsmystery ; Chicago Sun Times ; Noam Chomsky ; New Hampshire Gazette ; Eric Hufschmid ; Coleman, Chris ; L. A. Times
Sent: Thursday, August 26, 2010 8:33 PM
Subject: History seems to be repeating itself again and again since Biblical Times.
I have written about these subjects on a number of occasions before, but now put it together as a short article.
Perhaps some of you will be interested in publishing it.
Zsambek, 2072, Hungary Tel.-3623342198
The bubble that burst
History seems to be repeating itself again and again since Biblical Times.
The present worldwide financial crisis, which started towards the end of 2008, like the ones before it, is not an unpredictable, unforeseeable sudden act of Nature, like a Tsunami, Hurricane or Earthquake, and proves yet again that the (Financial) World is run mostly by bulimically greedy, insatiable, cynical, unscrupulous, dishonest, short sighted, but incredibly arrogant and conceited idiots, driven probably by some inferiority complex ridden, insane compulsion to amass more and more unnecessary Riches, Wealth and through that, Power over their fellow humans. Had the highest ranking decision makers of the Financial and Political World (perhaps 200, or 250 people) adhered to the time honoured proverb of: “cut your coat, according to your cloth” the World, Mankind, and Mother Earth, our one and only sustainer, of Life, and Home would not now be cascading down the slippery slope towards total Chaos, War, Famine, and Destruction. The concept of “Noblesse Oblige” means nothing to these people and they are incapable of seeing their moral responsibility and understand that we, all of us, are passengers on Planet “Titanic” Earth and in the End will sail, or sink into oblivion together anyway. By now we have got to the Stage, that Economic life, Television, Newspapers, Culture, just about every facet of human life is controlled by these, insatiable, in reality inferiority complex ridden, mad Morons.
The gap between Rich and Poor is wider than ever before in the History of Mankind, and instead of getting smaller it is increasing day by day.
And the present trend towards total Globalisation will mean that real power will be concentrated in the hands of even fewer people than ever before.
To paraphrase World War II British Prime Minister Winston Churchill: “Never in the Realm of Human History have so many been exploited, taken advantage of, manipulated, smilingly sent to financial ruin, abject poverty, hopeless despair, or even death, by so few.” Hiding behind the self-assured value judgements and smiling brutality of ruthless, unscrupulous, bulimic financial economic power and wealth, these brain and emotion washed morons rule from behind the scenes, controlling the finances of the World, through Off-Shore Companies, Secret Bank Accounts, whose real ownership is shrouded in Mystery, etc… Their tools are Indebtedness, Inflation, Devaluation, Unemployment, the gently or not so gently implied threats of one or more of the above. If the Real Decision Makers or Rulers really wanted to, it would and should be possible to run the Economic and Financial Affairs of the World much more openly. Flags of Convenience, Tax Havens, Numbered Bank Accounts, Off-Shore Companies and the like could and should be done away with. The sole reason for their continued existence is to hide, sanction and legalise the dishonest, unscrupulous money making practices of the lucky or favoured participants. In other words, to make it possible for the “Few”, to Cheat, and Steal, from the “Many”. Half hearted efforts are sometimes made, to achieve this, especially after some major scandal, involving sums incomprehensible to most if not all wage earners, but they are usually full of loopholes and always peter out and become ineffective. Occasionally there will be a little sabre-rattling; highfalutin utterances are sometimes made like „This is the Unacceptable Face of Capitalism” by various well-known marionettes on the World Stage but that will be all. It seems to me that the Real Masters of the World are Cynical, Dishonest and Corrupt through and through, drunk with their unbridled, limitless financial and economic power and probably criminally insane as well. As Lord Acton said in the 19th Century:
„All Power Corrupts and Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely.”
This applies to Financial and Economic Power even more so.
Invisible, insidious economic and financial power is much more dangerous than a marching army. It is certainly much easier to fight against tanks (at least the enemy is visible) than against scheming, hidden and evil financial power often cynically even claiming to be humane, altruistic helpful and beneficial. Dictators, presidents, prime ministers, or even mullahs cross them at their peril.
The real Rulers, or Masters of our World, in other words, the Real decision makers stay in the background and spend their lives in their Ivory Towers believing themselves to be safe, smiling with the sense of superiority of the Initiated, the privileged few, the “Insiders” who are in the Know, the ”Inner Party” according to George Orwell, as the Cannon-Fodder Plebs, be they official soldiers, or “terrorists” often willingly get killed on both sides of the barricades, stupidly and innocently believing that they are fighting and dying for a righteous and true cause.”
Some form of Worldwide redistribution of wealth will sooner or later become inevitable. Not only between individuals, but Continents and Nations as well.
It would probably less costly and painful for all concerned, and not only from a financial point of view to start doing it from „above” rather than wait till the starving, poverty stricken Millions will start doing it from „below”.
And did they publish it?
“Some form of Worldwide redistribution of wealth will sooner or later become inevitable …”
I’ll vote for you bro!! I badly need a new car and I’m low on whiskey …
There is this dark civil war like arguing among Hungarians that can not end because of the stubbornness of the unreformed extremists on the right and left.
The left is more ready for compromise than the right.
The left was in power for quite a long time, and reached a certauin civility,
While the right was thrown out violently and deservedly in 1945-48.
The peaceful transition from Kadarism into a free civil society was great, thanks to Horn and his cabinet member friends.
Let us hope that Orban will allow a return to civility in the same peaceful manner.
When can it happen?The earlier the better.
The extremists like the troll guests, and the personalities like Imre Bokros, Ferenc Szakaly must give up their deep hatred directed against the other Hungary. Let us unite and civilize.
Just a reminder (I had forgotten it too …):
Atilla Levay was here before with an attack non “the criminal USA”:
So he’s in the habit of writing letters to the US …
The same kindergarden logic as the other trolls:
The other guy also did something bad last week – so why am I being punished ?
Can’t be the same guy: here he’s only Dr. Bokor and the learned Mr. (Professor? Doktor?) Levay has called him “Professor Dr. Bokor”.
My, my…but he must be a very great man but, having been directed to various blogs and websites, he shows himself only as some hare-brained anti-semite which in Hungary proliferate like mosquitoes…But, lest we forget, he wears an army uniform and that demands, from the heavily populated ‘mustachios’ of the hinterland, knee-jerk respect!
What is the difference between a “National Socialist” and an “International Socialist”?
The “National Socialist” bit and swallowed his cyanide tablet when his regime collapsed.
(And those who didn’t were hanged)
When his regime collapsed, the “International Socialist” suddenly became a “Democrat” continued as before and became a “Capitalist” millionaire.
And now watch this film in case you have not seen it before.
The Soviet Story (2008) – IMDb
Directed by Edvins Snore. With Andre Brie, Vladimir Bukovsky, Norman Davies, Aleksandr Guryanov.
The Soviet Story offers an alternative history of an Allied ..
Pick me! Pick me! I made a movie once about a group that tried to take over the world with lies and such. THe difference between that and the Orban government… wait a minute, there is no difference. THis is related to the subject on the same way.. wait a minute.. it is not related. I won.
You want to watch movies about Orbanistan? Watch 1984! http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087803/
I agree wirh Some1. There probably wasn’t a huge amount of courage involved in opposition as late as 1989. It was clear which way the wind was blowing. If Horn had done it 10 years earlier when the Soviet Union was going through its terrorist phase shooting down the pope and Korean passanger planes he would have been a brave man. As it is he is just a politician. It reminds me of last year when all the business leaders and politicians were cuing up to back gay marriage in the US and show how great and progressive they were. I just thought where were you ten years ago when this was a contentious issue. Horn is JUST a politician. Why idolize him?
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