It was a mistake to release documents relating to Gyurcsány’s speech of May 26, 2006

I predict that Viktor Orbán will regret, if he has not already done so, his decision to dredge up those two documents that Sándor Pintér released two days ago. They were supposed to prove that Ferenc Gyurcsány was himself responsible for his infamous speech of 2006 becoming public. Not that, even if it were true, which it is not, it would make any difference. It is not really news. News would be if we learned who the people were who were responsible for the theft of the tape from either MSZP headquarters or the prime minister’s office.  The release of the documents was supposed to serve only one purpose: to remind the public during the election campaign of Gyurcsány’s unforgivable sins against the nation. It seems to me that instead of achieving the desired outcome Viktor Orbán is now facing uncomfortable questions about his and his party’s role in this whole sordid affair.

We learned nothing new from the documents about the circumstances of the leak, but we found out something that Viktor Orbán has steadfastly denied ever since September 2006. For the first time a Fidesz politician, Lajos Kósa, admitted yesterday that they knew of the tape’s existence earlier. Not that we didn’t suspect as much. Most commentators who analyzed the events prior to the siege of the Hungarian Television building came to the conclusion that Viktor Orbán already knew about the contents of the tape in July 2006 and that by the beginning of August the Fidesz team managed to lay their hands on the actual tape. This timeline was also assumed by József Debreczeni, who relied heavily on a blogger’s detailed description of the events, available online, for his book A 2006-os ősz. Orbán decided to withhold the release of the tape until the time was ripe. And that day was September 17, just as Viktor Orbán was en route to Brussels.

Now, for the first time, Lajos Kósa under the pretty aggressive questioning of Antónia Mészáros of ATV admitted that they made several copies of the speech and delivered them to the more important media outlets, including Magyar Rádió, where two or three sentences were lifted from a long speech. So, instead of learning anything new about Ferenc Gyurcsány’s complicity, we are now faced with a Fidesz admission of something we until now only surmised. That was Fidesz’s first own goal, and more may follow because questions are pouring in.

How is it possible, for example, that Viktor Orbán weeks before the siege predicted what would happen on September 19? Tamás Lajos Szalay of Népszabadság calls attention to a three-part article of Orbán published in Magyar Nemzet entitled “Watershed.” The first part was published on July 29, the second on August 5, and the third on September 9. Why the long gap between the second and third articles? If it is true that the tape arrived sometime in early August, it is likely that Orbán had to rewrite his article to reflect his new found knowledge. In any case, Orbán in his piece exhibits prophetic faculties when he sees only two possibilities. He envisions unrest unless “we find a peaceful way out of the crisis.” The peaceful way was the Gyurcsány government’s resignation.

Most likely not too many people remember the tape sent to several radio stations in the name of “The Warriors of Democracy” which sent a chilling message to the government. On September 14 a distorted male voice called on the government to resign. If they don’t do so by September 20, Budapest will be in flames. Most commentators dismissed the threat as the work of a crackpot, but in light of what happened on September 19 I wouldn’t dismiss it. The police at the time said something about a crime that can be viewed as a terrorist threat, but by January 2007 they were no longer investigating the case. We will never know who the warriors of democracy were or whether they had any connection to Fidesz. But the long-forgotten warriors of democracy cropped up again in today’s Népszabadság.

Szabolcs Kerék-Bárczy expressed the opinion of the Demokratikus Koalíció on the matter. They demand the release of all documents. He pointed out that with Kósa’s admission we now know that Viktor Orbán has been lying about his own involvement in this affair. “It has become clear that Hungary has a liar as prime minister.” Admittedly, not exactly a new discovery. Another observer, István Gusztos, remarked in Gépnarancs that while the released documents tell us nothing about Ferenc Gyurcsány, they do tell us a lot about Fidesz, which “had a determinant role in the outbreak of disturbances.”

The next step will be a serious second look at the football hooligans’ role on September 19, 2006 during the siege of the television building. In Hungary the worst football hooligans are the fans of Ferencváros (Fradi). The Fradi fans were in a foul mood at the time because their favorite team had lost its place in Division I. Orbán, who is an Újpest and Videoton fan, paid a surprise visit to the Ferencváros-Jászapáti match, their first one in Division II. He settled in the middle of the Fradi fans and even gave an interview to reporters present. He expressed his disgust at what had happened to Fradi, which was in his opinion “a scandal” (disznóság). Commentators were a bit surprised at Orbán’s sudden appearance at a Fradi game. The precise connection between this visit and the Fradi fans’ active participation in the siege of Hungarian TV is not known, but in all probability the two occurrences were not unconnected–especially in light of a later development when as a result of a new investigation of the case during the Orbán government, the sentences already passed on a handful of hooligans by the courts were annulled. The suspicion lingers that those half-crazed, drunk men had been assured ahead of time that their actions would have no consequences once Viktor Orbán was the prime minister of Hungary.

MTV ostrom

All in all, I believe that it would have been better for Viktor Orbán, however fervently he wants to “get” Ferenc Gyurcsány, to let sleeping dogs lie. There is just too much muck around Fidesz headquarters which seems to surface every time the subject of Balatonőszöd comes up.

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83 comments

  1. Eva S. Balogh :
    It seems that my feelings about the release of the secret service documents were correct. Today Kósa changed his mind. Now he claims that he was not involved with the copying and distribution of the tape. He most likely received orders from above to change the story because it is damaging as it stands now. Moreover, Pintér is giving a press conference on the topic this afternoon.. Most likely he will have to explain the story in such a way that it will be less damaging to Fidesz and Orbán.

    But Éva, how is it damaging to Fidesz and Orbán? In the eyes of people like you and me, then yes. But it is only the millionth confirmation of what Fidesz and Orbán are like, so hardly an earth shattering revelation. For virtually everyone else, it is a non issue. I do sometimes think you live in cloud cuckoo land on issues like this. No one cares and Orbán will not lose a single vote as a result of this.

  2. What about J. Lazar’s speech today against the largest Jewish community MaZsiHiSz?

    He is angry with the them for not taking the gov’t money in return for accepting the gov’t false history.

    MaZsiHiSz “ultimatum divides the society” and “raises concern in many”.

    I think Orban & Co want to divide the Jews, and they are upset that they were not completely successful.

    http://www.origo.hu/itthon/20140225-lazar-janos-nekiment-a-mazsihisznak.html

  3. Mr. Paul :
    It is simply untrue that it was only Fidesz made an issue out of this. This was either a legitimate issue or was made one by Bajnai AND Szekeres together. The claim that this was some sort of “jewish card” is downright absurd in light of the actual, real, unfalsified articles from the time the issue was happening.

    Good one, Paul! Right. It was the socialist PM who had a problem with the Israeli planes, not the right wing, anti-semite cuckoos.

    Wasn’t it the same time when they were talking about the Jewish business men stealing the Hungarian water reserves?

  4. Mr. Paul :

    New developments on the Öszöd case. A socialist politician Gál J. wanted to leak the speech right after it happened, according to the former chief editor of Népszabadság. “The Boss gave a fenomenal speech” he is being quoted as the reason as to why he wanted the speech published. He approached Népszabadság about publication of the speech which they offered. But after that initial contact, the issue was dropped altogether. Gál J. was also in charge as undersecretary (államtitkár?) of the Office of the Prime Minister (MeH), one of the locations that kept copies of the Öszöd speech in a safe.

    Gál didn’t want to “leak” the speech to Népszabadság. He approached the editor-in-chief whether they would publish the speech. That is quite common practice in politics. Gál thought that the speech was very good and should be made public in an edited form. Too bad that he didn’t follow up on it.

  5. Mutt I don’t get it. Did you read the link in full?

    http://www.origo.hu/itthon/20100318-azonnali-vizsgalotot-rendelt-el-az-izraeli-repulok-miatt-bajnai-gordon.html

    And may I remind you to the recent survey that we discussed on this blog in great detail. It said that 40% of MSZP supporters are anti-semitic. That scientific survey clearly showed that antisemitism is not a right-left issue as your comment implies. By the way if this was a legitimate scandal why wouldn’t they want to investigate, how it happened? At the highest possible level.

  6. Ivan :
    For what it’s worth, my feeling (on the ground, as it were) is that ANY mention of THAT speech is a Fidesz vote winner. Very few people have either read/heard the full speech or want to read it – they trust in the remix that they have been given.
    Debreczeni’s book was read solely by those few who do not trust the spoonfeeding of the hugely biased media. And it’s the media control that has been the masterstroke of the ruling parties.
    Even worse, if one tries to even suggest an alternative reading of events, most folk just roll their eyes patronisingly and mutter about naivety and being taken in by ‘Liberal lies’.
    Until we actually address the mindset of a misled and (for the most part) monolingual public, we’re only kidding ourselves. It’s much more difficult to mislead a Slavic-speaking nation, because there’s just so much information out there. But Hungary is an island, speaking a beautiful and fascinating language but essentially barred by that language from much of what the rest of the world has to say (not that they’re saying much, huh, Mr Thorpe at the BBC?).

    Ivan has it pretty right (except the Thorpe bit – the less that paid lackey of Fidesz says, the better!).

  7. HiBoM :

    But Éva, how is it damaging to Fidesz and Orbán? In the eyes of people like you and me, then yes. But it is only the millionth confirmation of what Fidesz and Orbán are like, so hardly an earth shattering revelation. For virtually everyone else, it is a non issue. I do sometimes think you live in cloud cuckoo land on issues like this. No one cares and Orbán will not lose a single vote as a result of this.

    I have a small talent for discovering small signs that on the surface may not seem exactly earth shattering but later hunches turn out to be accurate. In today’s blog I will let you in on some of these signs that I consider significant.

  8. Mr. Paul :
    Mutt I don’t get it. Did you read the link in full?

    It’s totally useless to quote a Hungarian article 3 times in an English language blog.
    I still insists: the FIDESZ had a big problem with “Israeli invasion” not the PM.
    We can close this.

  9. Come on, Mr Paul. The PM announcing an investigation after the Magyar Nemzet piece was a normal reaction from any government. But the MoD’s communication was catastrophic, and it cannot be denied that Fidesz made a big fuss about it, summoning the House defence commitee, attacking the MoD etc.

    Now in my view, the Fidesz reaction was also a basic one: during an election campaign against a sitting government you just seize every occasion to paint them as incompetent, period. But the thing is, it generated an awful lot of media noise, most of which was unfortunately echoeing a creeping anti-semitism in Hungarian society, as well as a national passion for conspiracies of all kinds.

    Were Fidesz conscious of that risk when they jumped on the issue? And if they were, did they see that risk as potentially rewarding? Depending on what each of us thinks the answers to these two question are, “Fidesz playing the jewish card before the 2010 election” may sound true or not. For Some1 (and myself) it does, for you it doesn’t. Let’s agree to disagree, but there’s no need to argue over the events themselves.

  10. “I have a small talent for discovering small signs that on the surface may not seem exactly earth shattering but later hunches turn out to be accurate. In today’s blog I will let you in on some of these signs that I consider significant.”

    Éva was certainly right about Kósa. He is getting entangled in his own stupid mistakes and various contradictory statements about Öszöd.

  11. Re those spy planes:

    I remember very well the crazy allegations the right wing loonies made on pol.hu – including those videos that “proved” that Israeli children were learning Hungarian and Israel was buying up Hungary to move their people there in case of a war in Palestine …

    It was so idiotic that it was almost funny in a way – just like Mr Paul ‘s crazy rantings! (And I mean it!)

    After what Mr Paul wrote today – again rehashing the stupid Fidesz claims ad nauseam I think we should ignore him, or maybe ban him! I’m sure that other sites like kuruc or … will be glad to have his idiocies!

  12. tappanch :
    What about J. Lazar’s speech today against the largest Jewish community MaZsiHiSz?
    He is angry with the them for not taking the gov’t money in return for accepting the gov’t false history.
    MaZsiHiSz “ultimatum divides the society” and “raises concern in many”.
    I think Orban & Co want to divide the Jews, and they are upset that they were not completely successful.
    http://www.origo.hu/itthon/20140225-lazar-janos-nekiment-a-mazsihisznak.html

    Moreover, he said – I think, you noticed too – this ultimatum raise conflicts (or something of that effect) between Hungarians and Jews!
    Excouse me?
    Just where this man thinks he’s living? And what age, if I may ask?

    Just for your information: Lázár is the member of the presenyly ruling Hungarian government and the year is 2014, AC.

  13. spectator :
    Moreover, he said – I think, you noticed too – this ultimatum raise conflicts (or something of that effect) between Hungarians and Jews!
    Excouse me?
    Just where this man thinks he’s living? And what age, if I may ask?
    Just for your information: Lázár is the member of the presenyly ruling Hungarian government and the year is 2014, AC.

    The expression “magyar-zsidó együttélés” also shocks me, but it appears to be quite common. See for instance:

    https://hungarianspectrum.wordpress.com/2009/12/10/elie-wiesel-in-hungary/

  14. “rehashing the stupid Fidesz claims ad nauseam”

    Wolfi you are getting extremely stupid in a funny way. When you write a sentence like above it is helpful to point out what was the “Fidesz claim”. I can help you there is none. I linked an Origo article several times, maybe you’ve missed it. I recommend you read it before talking extremely stupid things.

    http://www.origo.hu/itthon/20100318-azonnali-vizsgalotot-rendelt-el-az-izraeli-repulok-miatt-bajnai-gordon.html

    The word Fidesz appears 0 times in the article. Number of Fidesz’s claims is: 0. The whole article is about Bajnai and Szekeres. Gordon Bajnai was the Prime Minister of not Fidesz. Szekeres was the MSZP defense minister, not nominated by Fidesz. I suggest you next time when you make an accusation against anyone try to write complete sentences. Like “rehashing the stupid Fidesz claim that Bajnai initiated an investigation”. Then we at least know what you are actually referring to. What is your claim… The way you do it, not even telling us what your accusation is… it is just pathetic.

  15. I forget to mention but Origo is also not Fidesz. It is a web news portal that was simply reporting the news at the time.

  16. Mr Paul … and there are other articles that claim that the Fidesz made a big deal of the Israeli planes … are high or it is just too late?

  17. Mutt :
    Mr Paul … and there are other articles that claim that the Fidesz made a big deal of the Israeli planes … are high or it is just too late?

    I already closed the discussion with you as you said earlier we can close it. You made some valid points. I just had to respond to Wolfi’s absurdity. He was accusing me with “rehashing Fidesz claims” and refusing to say what these claims were.

  18. tappanch :
    Detailed model for the price of the power from Paks-2
    gives 31 HUF/kWh.
    http://energiaklub.hu/blog/paks-2-es-az-aramar
    http://energiaklub.hu/sites/default/files/paks2_ar.xlsx

    What does this mean? Currently 1 kWh is between 40-50 HUF. More then half of wich is “system usage fees” + sales tax (27%). The electricity is around 20 HUF / kWh.

    So this means that the juice will be 10 HUF / kWh more on the utility bill? ~20% increase with the present pricing scheme?

  19. Marcel Dé (@MarcelD10) :

    spectator :
    Moreover, he said – I think, you noticed too – this ultimatum raise conflicts (or something of that effect) between Hungarians and Jews!
    Excouse me?
    Just where this man thinks he’s living? And what age, if I may ask?
    Just for your information: Lázár is the member of the presenyly ruling Hungarian government and the year is 2014, AC.

    The expression “magyar-zsidó együttélés” also shocks me, but it appears to be quite common. See for instance:

    https://hungarianspectrum.wordpress.com/2009/12/10/elie-wiesel-in-hungary/

    Are you referring to Balog’s speech?

  20. @Mutt
    The current NET price of electricity is
    16.20 HUF/kWh at ELMU
    15.44 HUF/kWh at E.on

    So the price of the electricity from Paks-2 will be double of this, even if there isn’t any cost overrun or time extension, which are unlikely not to happen.

  21. With the author, Perger’s assumptions, Hungary will repay about 20 billion euros on the 10 billion euro Russian loan at the end.

  22. andy – 40 days to go..Campaign Effectiveness coefficient against Fidesz :
    Andy’s Evaluation of the Effectiveness of the Opposition’s Election ‘Campaign’… @ 40 days to election
    Here’s my most recent evaluation (10 = excellent; 5 = average; 0 = terrible;)
    (my scores include a general latent effect)
    Effectiveness:
    Image created (psychological effect)
    – one of some discord between family members…
    = 3
    Messages created:
    Printed hand-out materials
    – hardly seen
    = 2
    Effectiveness of Press-releases and Press-conferences
    – nothing worth while
    = 2
    Advertising (all media)
    – not much notable = 2
    Internet articles, comments
    – = 9
    Radio multiplied by relative size of user public reached
    = 1 (approx — am not a user)
    TV (including ATV’s valiant efforts) multiplied by relative size of user public reached
    = 3
    Creativity of Messages created
    = 0
    Generation of Anti-Fidesz mood
    = 0
    Generation of positive Pro-Összefogás new messages
    = 0
    Defense, fielding of Attacks from Fidesz
    = 2
    TOTAL AVE: about 2 out of 10 points…
    ‘Guys’, this is what we GOT – a lousy 2/10

    Correct. And the worst case scenario is what I see happening here, a fairly empty series of arguments, replicating largely the extremists focused on “Politics of Identity” –except Spectrum is on the other side of an extreme. Devoid of constructive, forward moving programs, visible, palpable, and beyond mere rhetoric, Politics of Identity is one definition of fascism. The “worst” which the Liberal “best” can garner is a paralysis. It is a blessing the population is becoming aware of this. The worst case, in fact, horrifying result, may be a forcing a Fidesz-Jobbik coalition. Who wants that?
    .

  23. tappanch :
    Interior minister Sándor “golden dagger” Pintér claimed today that there are no further
    documents about the leaking of the Őszöd speech.
    http://nol.hu/belfold/pinter__lenyegtelenek_a_beszed_kiszivarogtatasanak_korulmenyei

    Mr. Paul February 21, 2014 at 7:25 pm | #15
    [Quote form Some1] ” Apparently the original document still exist. So, why not publish it?”
    Reply: There is no “original document”. There is ANOTHER document. As in: two reports were published already but there are more that are still classified (by MSZP) and are still state. So there is your answer. Because MSZP, Gyurcsany and Bajnai classified it and made it a state secret, that is the reason. As to “why not publish it”? Because MSZP and Gyurcsany made it a crime themselves to publish these documents.
    ——
    As we all know Mr. Paul is very well-versed in the Fidesz reportaire. His insider knowledge was very preminent on the Oszod subject.
    So, I must ask from Mr. Paul: Were you misinformed? Did you lie? Does Pinter lies?

  24. Dr. L. PETROVICS Ofner :
    The worst case, in fact, horrifying result, may be a forcing a Fidesz-Jobbik coalition. Who wants that?
    .

    Forcing? Should a Fidesz-Jobbik coalition ever happen, the only people responsible would be Fidesz as well as Jobbik leaders and party members, and eventually the voters who would stand beyond such an alliance. Gouverner c’est choisir…

  25. Well, this shows that Fidesz’s disrespect for democracy started well before 2010. What we see happening since 2010 is just the gradual de-masking of their true (undemocratic) selves.

  26. @Some1
    “As we all know Mr. Paul is very well-versed in the Fidesz reportaire. His insider knowledge was very preminent on the Oszod subject.
    So, I must ask from Mr. Paul: Were you misinformed? Did you lie? Does Pinter lies?”

    I am not sure what insider knowledge are you talking about. I would be glad if you could provide the sentence you are referring. Really I am curious if this just empty, baseless argument for the sake of argument or you at least had something in mind when you said this.

    As to your previous question “why was I wrong” the answer is that I was simply quoting Bajnai and Gyurcsany. Both have said that there is another report, not yet made public that they have seen. My point was that there is no ORIGINAL report even according to Bajnai and Gyurcsany. They are claiming that there is another report which was not yet made public. This is what I tried to explain to you, Some1 because you were apparently starting to believe a conspiracy theory that there is an original report from which new ones were falsified. This is such a claim that even Bajnai and Gyurcsany dared not to make.

  27. Marcel Dé (@MarcelD10) :

    Eva S. Balogh :
    Are you referring to Balog’s speech?

    I was referring to the very title of the conference.

    OK, I understand.I really should do research on this question but I don’t recall of magyar-zsidó word combinations in the past. It seems to me a new phenomenon. However, there is a fantastic internet site on the Hungarian language. It is an incredible collection of words appearing in context. I will try to look into it there..

  28. Mr. Paul :
    @Some1
    “As we all know Mr. Paul is very well-versed in the Fidesz reportaire. His insider knowledge was very preminent on the Oszod subject.
    So, I must ask from Mr. Paul: Were you misinformed? Did you lie? Does Pinter lies?”
    I am not sure what insider knowledge are you talking about. I would be glad if you could provide the sentence you are referring. Really I am curious if this just empty, baseless argument for the sake of argument or you at least had something in mind when you said this.
    As to your previous question “why was I wrong” the answer is that I was simply quoting Bajnai and Gyurcsany. Both have said that there is another report, not yet made public that they have seen. My point was that there is no ORIGINAL report even according to Bajnai and Gyurcsany. They are claiming that there is another report which was not yet made public. This is what I tried to explain to you, Some1 because you were apparently starting to believe a conspiracy theory that there is an original report from which new ones were falsified. This is such a claim that even Bajnai and Gyurcsany dared not to make.

    I did quote you. Why are you not including my original text? I also provided the time and date.
    Mr. Paul February 21, 2014 at 7:25 pm | #15
    [Quote form Some1] ” Apparently the original document still exist. So, why not publish it?”
    Reply: There is no “original document”. There is ANOTHER document. As in: two reports were published already but there are more that are still classified (by MSZP) and are still state. So there is your answer. Because MSZP, Gyurcsany and Bajnai classified it and made it a state secret, that is the reason. As to “why not publish it”? Because MSZP and Gyurcsany made it a crime themselves to publish these documents.
    —–
    You said ” two reports were published already but there are more that are still classified (by MSZP) and are still state. So there is your answer.”

    Bajnai and Gyurcsany requested the document to be published. So it could be published. You are saying that they made it state secret. So if Fidesz could publish other state secrets about Oszod, why not is one? WHy wouldn’t Fidesz deny that there are three document at the first place. So here is the thing if there were only two documents then Fidesz “rewrote” those documents (took out parts, etc) to fit their agenda. You did not agree with that statement as there is a third one, you said it. Is there or isn’t there? Either way it is messy.

  29. Eva S. Balogh :

    Marcel Dé (@MarcelD10) :

    spectator :
    Moreover, he said – I think, you noticed too – this ultimatum raise conflicts (or something of that effect) between Hungarians and Jews!
    Excouse me?
    Just where this man thinks he’s living? And what age, if I may ask?
    Just for your information: Lázár is the member of the presenyly ruling Hungarian government and the year is 2014, AC.

    The expression “magyar-zsidó együttélés” also shocks me, but it appears to be quite common. See for instance:
    https://hungarianspectrum.wordpress.com/2009/12/10/elie-wiesel-in-hungary/

    Are you referring to Balog’s speech?

    In my opinion this is part of a bigger, more elaborate and much more sinister scheme.
    You certainly remember expressions too, when they talking about “Roma and Hungarian” societies – as it was two distinct entity, even if we are all know, that both Hungarians at the first place. In this case they should have mentioned “Hungarian Roma” societies as a distinction from Romanian- or Bulgarian (or whatever else) Roma’s, but they didn’t.

    The same is with the “Hungarian and Jewish” in any context really.

    Why is that, and why is this a problem?

    I expressed certainly more than a few times already, that as I see it the Fidesz employs a so called Neuro Linguistic Programming technique, which is based on utilising the direct- and indirect (subliminal) effects of linguistic elements, words, if you like, and their connotative meanings. In this case the repetitive usage of the “us and them” construction, “Hungarians and Jews”, Hungarians and Roma’s” not only managed to build this into the everyday usage of the common language, but also managed to plant this kind of distinction, in effect taking apart, separating these groups from each other, and without we even realise it, we going to see them as – just as I said, them.

    So this is how the brain-washing-machine really works, people, just to you to know too.

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