The Miskolc dilemma: Arguments on the other side

I would like to dwell a little longer on what has happened in Miskolc. Yesterday I summarized the events of 2009 when Albert Pásztor, then police chief of the city, made some remarks that reflected badly on the Roma minority of Miskolc. He made it clear that in his opinion integration of the Gypsies into the majority society had failed and that the coexistence of “Gypsies and Hungarians” is hopeless.

Pásztor was suspended by Hungary’s national police chief only a few hours after he made his views on the subject known. Equally speedy was the reaction of the local politicians, including the MSZP mayor and the local SZDSZ caucus, who came out in defense of Pásztor. The overly rapid response of the Gyurcsány government backfired, and the minister of justice had to reinstate Pásztor.

Some people date the growth of Fidesz/Jobbik supporters in Miskolc from that incident. According to estimates, 65-70% of the electorate in Miskolc today would vote for either Fidesz or Jobbik. Keep in mind that Miskolc was a socialist city between 1990 and 2010. People in the city who stand by Pásztor are convinced that the left can regain its predominance in the city only with him as its candidate.

In yesterday’s post I hinted at the typical reaction of Hungarians to any kind of untoward event. The reactions are immediate, pro and con and nothing in between. If we go back to 2009 and read about the Pásztor crisis it becomes clear that the government didn’t think through the possible consequences of suspending the local police chief. The government, which wholeheartedly supported the decision of the national police chief, knew very little about the political realities of Miskolc. In fact, this case is a good example of why the centralized Hungarian police structure is ineffective. If Miskolc had had its own independent police force, the national upheaval could have been averted. The socialist mayor, who obviously trusted the local police chief, could have had a talk with him and told him to apologize and tone down his remarks. Instead, the central government got into the unenviable position that they had to retreat and reinstate Pásztor.

Something similar happened this time. The local Együtt politicians endorsed Pásztor but Viktor Szigetvári and Tímea Szabó, the co-chairs in Budapest, refused Pásztor’s invitation to visit the city and talk things over. In my post written after 2009 incident I made it clear that what I thought of Pásztor’s remarks. Like most thinking people, I am convinced that integration and education are the only ways to solve the problem of the Roma minority. But integration cannot happen overnight. It took a long time in the United States to get to where we are today with the African-American minority, and we still have a very long way to go.

Most people point out that during the Kádár regime the situation of the Gypsies was a great deal better than it is today. The majority of them had jobs for which no skills were necessary. The men living in villages on Monday went to Budapest or other cities to work on construction projects or in factories and on Friday they went home to the family for the weekend. This was all very nice, but the education of Roma children was neglected and therefore when the low-paying unskilled jobs disappeared after 1990 they were left unemployed and reliant on welfare. Since then little has happened. Yes, Pásztor is definitely right on one thing. Attempts at integration have failed miserably.

I understand that the situation is especially bad in Miskolc. In today’s Galamus an article appeared written by Andrea Varga, a social worker from the city who knows the problems of the Roma colony in Miskolc. She considers herself a liberal who convincingly describes her long-standing relationship with Roma families and Roma school children. Yet she thinks that “the left made a wise decision when it supported Albert Pásztor as an independent mayoral candidate.” Why, one could ask.

Varga describes the hard times the city had to face after the factories closed.  The town never recuperated from the precipitous collapse of its economy. People are embittered, disappointed, and frustrated. The last four years of Fidesz rule only exacerbated the situation. The result, she claims, is the growth of racism. People are trying to find scapegoats, and the rather large Roma population is the first victim of their frustration and hatred. Jobbik and Fidesz with their anti-Roma policies are adding fuel to the fire. The frustrated people of Miskolc get more and more irritated by some of the loud members of the Roma subculture, and they turn against those who try to defend the Gypsies. She knows from bitter experience that it is impossible to have a reasonable conversation with these people. They don’t listen to the other side.

This is the area Andrea Varga worked as social worker Source: miskolc.hu

This is the area where Andrea Varga served as a social worker
Source: miskolc.hu

That’s why–Andrea Varga continues–Miskolc needs Pásztor, because if the parties on the left campaign there with their usual arguments the voters will neither listen to them nor vote for them. What is needed in Miskolc, she claims, is “flexibility” and a “channel of communication,” which might be Albert Pásztor. “This does not mean the abandonment of our principles, but we should opt for problem solving based on a realistic assessment of the situation.”

Now let’s see what Pásztor has to say for himself. On the whole, he stresses his commitment to democracy and promises “to talk about possible reasons for the conflicts [between Roma and non-Roma] in such a way that nobody should feel branded as a result.” But, at the same time, there is a sentence that might give us pause: “We must find out whether over and above the social situation there is something deeper and possibly revealable that the crimes that most irritate the inhabitants are primarily committed by those who are considered to be Roma.” What does he mean exactly? It would be a good idea to find out, and I’m sorry that those who oppose Pásztor refused to meet him. They just said no!

This attitude very much reminds me of what the Gyurcsány government did in 2009: they didn’t bother to investigate the situation in Miskolc. Now Együtt refuses to find what makes this person tick and what they could expect from him were he to become mayor of the city. It’s a mess. Parties draw lines in the sand, stand on moral principles to the exclusion of political realities–and lose.

Advertisements

39 comments

  1. I have learned to listen to social workers. And in social hot spots we need many more – male and female – and especially from the group of the troublemakers concerned, in this case Roma. Good social workers have the function of social and cultural interpreters. And if you are lucky, dialogue slowly supersedes suspicion and prejudice.

  2. Let’s listen to the Roma Civil Rights movement and to the Roma community. Galamus / one social worker tries to whitewash a racist police chief just because it is good for DK.
    This is the most outraging thing I see in the last days. If DK chose to side with the local racists it has to face the consequences.

  3. The artificial insincere upset of the patriotic hungarians is disgusting.

    Have these people have lost the last bit of decency? Or never had any.

    Orban and his friends in jobbik have been spewing racism, antisemitism, antiromaism, antieuropianism, but very few patriots have expressed any disagreement.

    Just like under Horthy, allied with nazi Germany, there was no significant opposition.

    Are Hungarians their own worst enemies?

  4. Thank you for your yes, Karl!

    Let us figure out how to strengthen humanity and civility for the Hungarians we love and appreciate.

    The cry of the opponents of the orban – vona regime must be heard because they represent the decency.

    The torch Deak, Kossuth, Szechenyi lit, must be handed over to a new generation.

  5. Not too much OT for those who can read German:
    http://www.tagblatt.de/Home/nachrichten/tuebingen_artikel,-18-Menschen-suchten-Arbeit-und-campierten-im-Freien-_arid,247059.html

    These poor people try everything – they are not qualified for complex jobs so they come to Germany to find work in agriculture (which is highly seasonal …) or in the end stay as beggars …

    Our authorities and helpful people are trying to help them and sometimes send them back, but it is a very complicated and “mühselig” work!

  6. London Calling!

    There are many Miskolcs in Hungary.

    The so-called ‘Roma’ problem is predominantly one of a clash of cultures and the neglect of Hungary’s underclass.

    It is incontrovertible that the collapse of construction, heavy industry and infrastructure renewal has been to the detriment of unskilled labour. In the (prolonged) downturn this has been a double whammy. Particularly in remoter areas.

    EU money only goes so far – particularly in the high embezzlement climate of this Thuggocracy.

    Add to this the deeply immoral flat tax (in a so-called ‘Christian’ country?) where the poorest pay a disproportionate chunk of the tax burden and you have a sizeable demotivated underclass – whatever culture/religion/class. Ditto the 27% vat.

    Apparently Roma people form ten percent of the Hungarian population. Yes 10% of the (Hungarian) population who have mostly experienced long term unemployment – in addition to the poor who are not Roma.

    10% of GDP sitting on its demotivated arse.

    Orban’s laughable promise of 1,000,000 jobs is becoming a sick joke as his, and Varga’s, policies hobble the business, media and banking climate further.

    It’s no wonder that the Roma form a disproportionate percentage of the prison population – as do the full underclass – Roma or no.

    They are Hungarians nevertheless.

    And it’s no wonder too that they all become the target of resentment and scapegoating.

    The free food queues and the bin rummagers are moving up the social spectrum of ALL Hungarians as the economy favours the ‘haves’ more and more – and as the economy collapses further and further.

    I’ve seen it in Gyor – a relatively prosperous part of Hungary.

    And as the older demographic hang on tightly to their perks and earn more concessions and more and more electoral ‘promise’ bribes to keep Thuggesz in power – then the underclass will only grow and grow.

    Just the poor. Just the poor Hungarians. Just the poor Hungarians whether they are Roma or not.

    And the older demographic becomes more powerful as the younger demographic diminishes – you know why.

    Where does the buck stop?

    It’s a leadership problem. The chief Thug of course.

    Together with Hungarian culture and society where democracy is still in transition – and the ‘democratic-state-of-mind’ is underdeveloped.

    As I said – there are quite a few Miskolcs in Hungary.

    Voters need to understand that when they vote, they vote for the best fair society and the best Hungary for all – not for energy cuts and bribes.

    But Hungary, you are not ready yet.

    Regards

    Charlie

  7. To everyone who thinks Pasztor’s racism is acceptable I recommend to you that you read the article titled “Pasztor and the law”

    http://nol.hu/velemeny/pasztor-es-a-torveny-1472409

    In this article the excellent journalist Sandor Revesz writes about Pasztor:

    “In 2009 Albert Pasztor held a press conference and stated that all the criminals of a type of robberies were Gypsy… with this the police chief only did the following:

    1. Neglected the presumption of innocence, which is not only a theoretical fault, since quite many Gypsy and non-Gypsy were proven innocent by the courts even though the police claimed they were guilty

    2. He made public intimate personal details. He could have no access to that sensitive data [about the Roma origin of only accused, not convicted persons] according to the laws, he was not by law permitted to handle such data, and he was even less permitted to make such data public.

    Thus the police chief did not violate political correctness, but openly went against the then (and now) effectual laws…”

    “Pásztor Albert 2009. január 30-án sajtótájékoztatón közölte, hogy a decemberben és januárban elkövetett valamennyi miskolci köztéri rablás elkövetője cigány volt… a rendőrkapitány csupán a következőket tette:

    1. Semmibe vette az ártatlanság vélelmének elvét, ami a legkevésbé sem csupán elvi jelentőségű vétség, hiszen elég sok cigány és nem cigány bizonyult már ártatlannak a bíróság előtt, akit a rendőrség bűnösnek állított.

    2. Olyan érzékeny személyes adatot hozott nyilvánosságra, melyről a hatályos törvények szerint tudomása sem lehetett, meg sem szerezhetett, még kevésbé kezelhette, s még annál is kevésbé hozhatta nyilvánosságra őket.

    A rendőrkapitány tehát nem a politikai korrektség illemszabályai ellen vétett, hanem nyíltan szembehelyezkedett a (jelenleg is) hatályos törvényekkel”

    http://nol.hu/velemeny/pasztor-es-a-torveny-1472409

    with that in mind should everyone think where they stand. On the side of racism or on the side of decency with E14. And with Revesz, and Istvan Hell, who quit DK because of the party’s support for Pasztor’s racism. And all the others who will never be able to stomach support for Pasztor.

    Can Pasztor even win in such circumstances? Or is it still time to find someone else whom all our side can support unanimously? Including E14 including all the intellectuals who condemned Pasztor? I hope the answer is YES.

  8. London Calling!

    In my ‘There are many Miskolcs’ post above – I omitted my final point!

    Given the above it is entirely wrong that, given Pasztor’s history, he should be Mayor.

    Regardless of the ‘reality’ and cost, Hungary has to make a new beginning soon.

    I thought Gyurcsány had more integrity.

    Regards

    Charlie

  9. Re Révész’s article. Of course, he is right about the 2009 events. However, I don’t quite know what he has in mind when he writes that Pásztor has “all kinds of ideas how to handle the ‘minority’ in isolation.” My problem is that so far I have not heard any of his ideas. I don’t think that anyone else could read about them anywhere, including Révész. I looked high and low.

  10. bu-vi
    July 6, 2014 at 8:47 pm
    The artificial insincere upset of the patriotic hungarians is disgusting.

    And your contribution? You know it is getting tiresome your insincere worry about some issues that close to your hart, your user name that you keep changing, your accusations of others who actually put honest suggestions up. I yet to read something from you beside of reciting the worship of Deak something meaningful.
    Stop accusing all Hungarians of standing back and doing nothing. There are dozens and dozens of examples on how many Hungarians write, protest, speak , demonstrate against the Jobbik and Orban. The problem is that while the current Hungarian government keeps numb about all opposition, YOU and the ones just like you say that there is nothing happening. Your failure to acknowledge and spread the word of the any opposing “unrest” causes more harm than Orban’s silence about it.
    THere were demonstrations against Csatary (not only by Jews), there were demonstrations agains the New Basic Law, there were demonstrations against the education “reform”, and so forth. In fact we have MANY on this forum who been part of many of these demonstrations (in front of the Opera, at the house of Csatary, and many other places. I personally know about five people who were demonstrating for the Roma. You either dismiss all the news and hanging out with the wrong crowd or try to actually strengthen Orban’s vision by very much repeating as a crow that all Hungarians are useless.

  11. Eva S. Balogh
    July 7, 2014 at 6:16 am
    Re Révész’s article. Of course, he is right about the 2009 events. However, I don’t quite know what he has in mind when he writes that Pásztor has “all kinds of ideas how to handle the ‘minority’ in isolation.” My problem is that so far I have not heard any of his ideas. I don’t think that anyone else could read about them anywhere, including Révész. I looked high and low.

    With all due respect Eva, I think it is worst to have no plan at all, and have a very muddy background. At least if he would have some plan (which he does not according to you)…
    So having no plan, sucking up to Gyurcsany, having a horrible track record regarding Roma issues should make us feel better about Gyurcsany’s selection?
    One thing that always worked in Hungary is how to suck up for power. It worked for Lazar, Hoffmann and Matolcsy, and now it will work for Pasztor.

  12. Looking at the map of runners up at the last parliamentary election, one can see that almost everywhere – even in the western parts – it was Jobbik who came second. My fear is now that they will gain one mayor seat after another.

    Now in the case of Miskolc, you have to decide which racist do you dislike more? I think it was Robert Kennedy who once argued: “We know he is a son of a bitch. But at least he’s our son of a bitch.”

    Take your pick – but try to stick to real choices and forget the pontificating.

  13. OT
    Fidesz and Peter Hoppal lost against the Hungarian Helsinki Committee.
    If you can recall in 2013 Fidesz spokesman at the time, Peter Hoppal called the Helsinki Committee and other NGOs “fake civil society organisations” funded by international financial speculators, whose only task was to attack the Hungarian government, Fidesz and the prime minister.
    THe co-chairman of the Helsinki Comitee called on Hoppal to publicly apologise within eight days for falsely claiming that the Committee had been working to smear Hungary on the orders of financial speculators, or it would launch a civil suit against him.

    Fidesz did not backed off, so the Helsinki Committee launched a civil lawsuit and won. Now, the only reason you will read about this in Magyar Nemzet and on fidesz.hu because that was mandated by the judge.

  14. @Minusio
    So, what you saying is that either MSZP or DK can find a single candidate in Miskolc who they could support wholeheartedly? So if all the candidates would be anti-semites, would that make it OK? Just asking. Would a candidate with sympathy of the KKK would be fine? SOmeone who openly hates the homosexuals and talks about it, would be fine?
    I am really curious of your answer as I very much supported all your comments before.

  15. Just as a reminder I think we should all reread the two posts I wrote about the Fidesz mayor in Miskolc. At least I would hope that this Pásztor wouldn’t force the Roma out of the city.

  16. To the people who don’t tolerate any other opinion on the gypsy/roma problem than their own: Recognition of facts and analysis of facts is the only way to reach an understanding of the problem. If you are not sure how it works, you cannot fix it.

  17. @Some1

    Counter-question: If all candidates were racists, anti-semites, homphobes and sympthasizers of the KKK, would you just abstain or vote for the one that belongs to your party (and thus is meant to toe the party line, regardless of what he may have said before)?

    From the earlier post Éva wrote on Pásztor my conclusion was (a) that he more or less reported what most police chiefs in a similar place all over Europe would have reported and (b) that an opinion poll stated that even the Roma could live with him.

    LwiiH, commenting on the Miskolc Dilemma is much closer to my heart as he describes that – as I have stated before – it is quite possible to integrate the Roma with some goodwill and patience and that how politics in Europe, even in ‘inclusive’ Canada, is failing them and putting us all to shame.

  18. @Some1

    Your strident political correctness is something to behold.
    That aside your comments carry a somewhat opaque logic: “…sucking up to power…” in reference to Gyurcsany is a laugher–what power? He’s a toothless tiger. What’s more, Hungarians only recognize the power that can wield favors…and no one has shown that better than Viktor the O. And again: Hungarians only truly support someone or something where they can ferret out a personal gain. Hungaricum.

    As for the Roma problem, it’s a tough not crack; always has been. And the best one can do is persistently try to peel away at the tough shell–incremental gains. And, as with all tough problems, you need a very tough (but fair) opponent.

  19. @minusio, could you give us an example where the Roma have been integrated? Even in their native India, they live pretty much as they live in Hungary. Do they integrate anywhere? I can’t think of an example. And it is rather disappointing to see streets in the UK filled with Romanian Roma living up to the racist stereotype, basically begging, while the ethnic Romanians are able to find work despite often limited language skills…

    Just as anyone looking at Jewish cultures all over the world is tempted to hypothesise that there is something in Jewish culture that encourages a respect for learning, self-improvement and a work ethic, making its representatives extremely successful in all walks of life and in often hostile environments, the elephant in the room (which we don’t talk about because it is politically incorrect to do so) is that anyone looking Roma across the world would similarly hypothesise that there is something profoundly screwed-up about their culture that makes them incapable of functioning in the 21st century. In which case, integration is a bit of a pipe-dream and what is needed is the destruction of their present culture and rebuilding of another.

    I am being deliberately provocative in the above so look forward to reading some articulate refutations.

  20. @ Minusio “Counter-question: If all candidates were racists, anti-semites, homphobes and sympthasizers of the KKK, would you just abstain or vote for the one that belongs to your party (and thus is meant to toe the party line, regardless of what he may have said before)?”
    I think this is a very good and very valid question. My answer is that I would try to work very hard to find/recruit/introduce and alternative. I would not vote for anyone who is racist, homophobe, etc. THen again, I am not getting the big bucks as our politicians do to come up wit the solution. I think the otter problem with Hungarian society is that people believe that the politicians job is to talk, versus to work. THeir “job description Should contain succession planning, recruiting and training. You cannot make me responsible for DK/MSZP’s predicament. They failed in their jobs. Yes, I may abstain from voting because when the first “Roma Law” will be passed in Miskolc, I would not want to pretend that I had no idea this would happen.

    The Romas are just the Jews in Hungary. Stereotyping will follow them. Why not to worry about electing white breed man? THey commit most of the “money crimes” in Hungary? Look at Meszaros and Orban’s surrounding with all the tenders and such.

  21. @HiBoM

    With a little search of your own you could have found this and much more:

    The great example: Spain:

    http://www.spain-holiday.com/blog/gypsy-integration-in-spain-seen-as-a-example-for-europe.php

    A doc file on where even Britain has been successful:

    http://www.grtleeds.co.uk/information/downloads/UNESCOForReal.doc

    Here you’ll find “Good practices addressing school integration of Roma/Gypsy children in Hungary” (it’s in a book):

    http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14675980802531721

    and also: “The education of Roma children in Romania: Description, difficulties, solutions”.
    http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14675980020002439

    The abstract shows where the other half of the problem lies:

    “In this study the authors discuss the manner in which the Romanian educational system deals with (or fails to deal with) the integration of Roma children in public education. Various educational strategies are discussed that have been attempted in Romania and that could potentially assist the Roma in facing the challenges of the twenty-first century in Romania. We also present a case study focusing on one community that sheds light on the various issues that affect the integration process of Roma children. Our research into a local school shows for instance that there is much willingness on the part of Roma children to participate in mixed schools (Roma and non-Roma) but that there is much reluctance on the part of the majority children and their parents to accept the Roma as their equals.”

    Find more and tell us what you make of it!

  22. London Calling!

    The Roma can and are integrated everywhere with varying degrees of success.

    One if Eva’s posts described a Roma nurse from a Roma ghetto in Hungary becoming a senior nurse/manager here in Crawley, England.

    She often went back home to build houses for fellow Roma and even got them jobs in England.

    Yes some do beg on the underground trains, but very few.

    It is how society deals an even hand with job opportunities and social mobility that is the key.

    But you have to give them some hope.

    Not political correctness either. Society can still deal with people fairly without recruiting unsuitable people with unsuitable views.

    As I said – Hungary needs a new start.

    And a fairer society for all is a good starting point.

    I don’t understand why it must be Pazstor?

    DK should sponsor someone with integrity – they need to think more long term and strategically too.

    Regards

    Charlie

  23. This issue of ‘calling a spade a spade’ had its equivalent in Toronto, no less. Back in the 80’s, I believe, some politico happened to hazard the opinion that the Jamaican’s in the Jane corridor were largely responsible for the drug problem in that area. Well, all hell broke loose: Jamaican
    activists–mostly priests–emerged from everywhere decrying ‘racism’ and the like. Sure enough, some short time later, people (accused) could no longer be defined by their race or color on tv or in print.

    Nonsense. And political correctness at its worst. Notice that ‘facts’ are no longer facts in certain circumstances…

  24. I recall when I came to Canada in the eighties, there were a whole bunch of young Hungarian immigrants. They moved into a Hungarian housing project. Some were working and some stole credit cards, sold drugs and so forth. A Hungarian man was hand in hand with a women who worked in the Ministry to help Hungarians settle. The guy flipped houses, and made the Hungarians move into these houses that needed reno. THey worked for below minimum wage, he paid not taxes on them, and they paid with the maximum welfare allowance for housing. An other old man tried to recruit Hungarian girls for sex. No, they would not have to do anything, he would do it all and pay $100 if they don’t tell his wife. So, can we say that all Hungarians in Canada are scam artists? Nope… we cannot. Many were. And they were not Romas!

  25. Just a reminder. Fidesz and Jobbik now have 70% of the votes in Miskolc? Forget about the left in Hungary. Western Hungary is 80-90% (!) right wing and will never ever vote left. If Miskolc does not vote for the left, then it`s game over for the Hungarian left. This Miskolc story is also a reminder about the hopelessness of the left. If the right wing parties decide something there is no criticism, there is unified support and quiet and ruthless execution. The minuscule leftist parties cant even agree on a bloody rural mayoral candidate. Their story was a fascinating saga, but the story is now coming to an end, the coup de gras will be the municipal elections. Fidesz (despite RTL reinvigorated news) will continue to rule all over Hungary, including Budapest and Jobbik will gain very significantly. Hungary is done with liberals and leftists. There is no crazyness Fidesz can`t commit, people will still vote for Fidesz, just like Germans would have voted for the Nazis in 1945, even after all the destruction.

  26. @Porter

    You could have left out the reference to “the Germans” as it is incorrect. The highest result the nazis ever got was at the election July 31, 1932: 37.4%. When they were made a coalition partner in 1933 it was on the basis of the election result of November 6, 1932: 33.1%. The election of March 5, 1933 (43.9%) was already rigged.

    Just like the “Elvis Lives” people you would still have a lunatic fringe that would even now vote for Hitler – probably in the per mille region. But to claim that after 1945 more than a handful of Germans would have voted for the nazis is populistic, prejudiced nonsense.

  27. When will people stop this ‘left’ / ‘right’ nonsense? Hungarians don’t give a fig about political philosophy. What they do care about is being ‘paid off’ for their support: hence Orban’s sly statement about supporting/helping his backers. No sooner said than the ‘nemzeti tabac’ shops
    came into being. Never mind that people were unlawfully (?) deprived of their income. Fidesz had the solution for that: we’ll just tweak a law here and there. In short, you support Fidesz in every way…then you’re do to get paid off in some way or other.

    Regarding the 500,000 some jews that Hungary sent to the camps when the Germans asked for 100,000…nowhere has it been suggested that the fervor of Hungarians was not just anti-semitism, but it had a lot to do with looting jewish homes and businesses. Swept under the rug, I suppose, because how much worse can it get than to send people brutally to their death for some material gain. Better to declare that the Germans were responsible…

    Hungaricum.

  28. By the way, the constitutional court has declared that the ‘tabac’ law was constitutional because ‘everyone had the right to apply’ (!)

    Give those men another PH.D will ya!

  29. @petofi

    ” Hungarians don’t give a fig about political philosophy.”

    Basically, I am against all sweeping generalisations such as this. In addition, with a few exceptions, all the Hungarians I know are very much interested in politics and political philosophy. However, most live in Budapest, most are Jews and they and like-minded Hungarians are not enough to form a critical mass. Thus the dilemma.

  30. i did NOT refuse to meet mr. pasztor. this is false. i met him last friday after accepting his invitation. i wrote about my experience in my galamus article this tuesday. please respect the facts!

  31. Just again, it became apparent that the leading independent minds are Petofi and Minusio.

    They are not soft on orban and his cruel dictatorship for a moment.

    It would be wise to honor these two great men. Try to duplicate them.

  32. To Viktor Szigetvári. Unfortunately, you are the one who distorts the facts. The announcement of Pásztor’s nomination appeared on June 1. The local E-14 people supported him. By noon on June 2 you people in Budapest announced your refusal to have anything to do with him. Thus refusal came before he had a chance to explain himself. Next day he invited you to go to Miskolc and it seems that you went on the 4th but I haven’t seen any media report on that meeting. I would be grateful if you could show me any description anywhere of it. Not even your own website mentioned your trip.

    As for your article in Galamus, it appeared on the 8th.

  33. after his statement (“social integration of minorities is not possible”) at the press conference about the announcement of his candidacy I believe we made a good decision. without any more inclusive, properly balanced statement from Mr. Pasztor on the delicate issue, it would be a decision agains my values to support him. he had almost a half of a decade to contextualize his problematic statements – he missed that opportunity.

    concerning my visit. he invited me personally on last Thursday, I mez him on last Friday. and ever since that day, including my article on Galamus, recenc newspieces and tv interviews, I talk about my experience with him openly and with almost the same words.

    sorry, but my support and our presidential board’s support could not have been granted for him pro bono politicallly. DK did this, but I think that in this case we were right not to do so.

  34. @viktor szigetvari, In a battle of he says, she says, sorry to say but Eva wins on the credibility gap. That said, one would hope that people would want someone who expressed a willingness, desire, and *believe* that there was hope for progress. On this point Pásztor fails according to this statement. The status quo is quite unacceptable and for one to be willing to accept it, well it’s time to move on to the next candidate. As for hope, recent interviews with Ontario teachers on their dealings with the Roma refuges said that the biggest issue was one of trust. The Roma’s trust has been abused so deeply for so long that they still carried this baggage to Canada. Once the educators were able to gain the trust of the Roma they started to see positive results. Many teachers expressed disappointment when the Canadian government started to deny these people refuges status. They were disappointed because the could see the potential and they knew the conditions they would be returned to. Sad to say but these people were/are refugees and shame on Hungary that they are and shame on Canada to deny that this is the case.

  35. But why is the responsibility of the Canadian State and the Canadian tax payers to fix Hungary’s social problems? The Roma live unhappy lives in Hungary but still vastly better off than those fleeing Syria etc who are surely authentic refugees.

  36. @HiBoM You’re not really asking a question are you? In fact it’s jeopardy in that establishing a position the form of a question. First I object to the question and secondly to the position that Roma are not authentic refugees. Come to eastern Hungary.. take a good look around to see what is really happening and then lets have a real discussion about who may or may not be a refugee.

Comments are closed.