Another strange Orbán speech at the 25th anniversary of the Pan-European Picnic

Another day, another speech. Earlier I briefly mentioned that the twenty-fifth anniversary of the Pan-European Picnic has been one of the important topics in the German press lately. The interest is understandable. It was the very beginning of the German unification process.

During the summer of 1989 Otto von Habsburg, who at the time was a member of the European Parliament, gave a lecture in Debrecen extolling the benefits of a Europe without borders. A couple of MDF activists came up with the idea of organizing a picnic right at the border between Austria and Hungary, symbolizing the artificial nature of borders. The organizers convinced Otto von Habsburg and Imre Pozsgay, a member of the Németh government and high-ranking party functionary, to attend the gathering to be held on August 19.

It turned out to be more than a simple picnic. Some East Germans who happened to be in Hungary heard about the event and decided to crash it in more than one way. They ran to the gate between Austria and Hungary and broke through. The Hungarian border guards were instructed to let them go. In fact, some children who were left behind were taken by Hungarian border guards across the border to join their parents. What followed we all know. On September 11 the Hungarian government opened the borders for all East Germans who were camping out in Hungary waiting for an opportunity to leave.

Hungarian border guards open the gate to freedom

Hungarian border guards open the gate to freedom

Yesterday Germans, Hungarians, Austrians, and some of the few hundred people who broke through the gate gathered to remember that  momentous day. Naturally, Viktor Orbán was also present. But instead of giving a formal speech he had a fairly lengthy “conversation” with Philip Rákay, a long time Fidesz activist and nowadays the superintendent of MTV, the state television station.

It was a strange conversation in which Orbán combined praise of the Hungarian nation with an explanation of his use of the word “liberal.” His speech back in July does need some explanation, especially since a couple of days ago he received some harsh words from the German Foreign Ministry. Undersecretary Michael Roth indicated that in the opinion of the German government “Hungary is going in the wrong direction.” According to Roth, Germany is grateful to the Hungarians for their courage in standing up for freedom in 1989, but today Germany must ask about the state of freedom in Hungary. “The developments taking place in Hungary raise concern,” he said, because “they affect our common European foundation.” This admonition came not from The Washington Post or The New York Times but from the government of the strongest and most influential country in the European Union.

This morning Péter Szijjártó responded by calling Roth’s “allegations” so general as to be meaningless, and he declared that no one should worry about the state of democracy in Hungary. Hungarians demand “respect” because they are freedom-loving people. “We are not the ones who threaten democracy.” Orbán at the commemoration ceremony also stressed the freedom-loving nature of Hungarians, adding that they are also chivalrous and magnanimous. Magnanimous because they did not take the money offered to them by Germany in exchange for the Hungarian courage and generosity shown in allowing thousands of Germans to cross over to Austria.

Soon enough, however, Orbán left history behind and began talking about matters that were in one way or another connected to his infamous speech. For example, he pointed out that Hungary cannot copy the Chinese, Russian, Japanese, or South Korean models because “we are Hungarians who come from a fundamentally Christian culture, motivated by freedom and [therefore] we must build a different economic and political system.” I have the feeling that this reassurance will not be enough for the politicians of the Trans-Atlantic alliance.

As for his description of the events of 1989, “the year of miracles,” it focused on Fidesz’s and his own role, with the usual emphasis on forcing the Russians to withdraw and getting rid of the communists. The Fidesz youngsters decided to be as radical as possible while there was such a revolutionary mood. It is almost as if Viktor Orbán and his youth organization were the only players in the drama of the regime change. Most of those present don’t remember the minute details of those months and don’t realize that Viktor Orbán and his friend László Kövér were only minor characters who until the last minute were not even admitted as negotiating partners in the Round Table Discussions. They don’t remember that the Russian troop withdrawals were negotiated by the Németh government, the “communists” who figured so large in Orbán’s discussion yesterday at the celebration.

According to Népszabadság the word “communist” was the most frequent one to leave his lips. Orbán’s critics keep repeating that they don’t understand where Orbán finds his communists because according to practically all independent observers there are mighty few of them, and they certainly cannot be found in public life. These critics, however, are most likely not familiar with the works of Gyula Tellér, who is convinced that the power structure that developed in 1954-55 is still with us. At the top were the hard-core Rákosists and the communists around Imre Nagy. These two power groups fought for supremacy. Under them were the middle classes and the petite bourgeoisie. This structure, according to Tellér, has remained surprisingly stable over more than fifty years.

Since Orbán is an attentive student of Tellér, according to whom these two top communist groups still exist, he continues to talk about communists in a country where the communist party is practically nonexistent. The real enemy, however, is not this group of ineffectual self-proclaimed communists; it is the opposition, whom Orbán views as communists who hide beneath the mask of Western-style socialism and liberalism. These covert communists must be obliterated, destroyed. The fight cannot end.

In fact, that fight has been intensified since 2010 when there was a revolution thanks to the electoral victory that produced a two-thirds majority in parliament.  Orbán recalled that József Antall sarcastically said to his critics who complained that his government did not stamp out the whole communist hierarchy, “Tetszettek volna forradalmat csinálni,” a very difficult phrase to translate because “You should have staged a revolution” doesn’t do it justice. Well, Orbán continued, in 2010 “tetszettünk forradalmat csinálni”  (We did stage a revolution). The fight against the “communists” will continue.

And the fight will continue on another front as well. János Lázár in his speech today told the Hungarians that they “are only half way into the reorganization of the Hungarian state.” Yes, they created new civil and criminal codes and a new administrative structure. What is still missing is a “new state structure.” I’m afraid that means a move toward a presidential system, with Viktor Orbán as president with far-reaching powers.

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91 comments

  1. Trojan Horses? Anticommunist tirades?

    Be aware, these eminent FIDESZ/Jobbik/MagyarGarda/HatvanNegyVarmegye etc. Hungarians are failing our nation again and again.

    Where are the intelligent Hungarians?

    Even the lowly communists could do a better job than Fidesz.

  2. When the Communists was the only show in town, many interested in a better Hungary (e.g Gulyas Communism) worked inside the system. But when the Commies were out, they left the machine and struck out on a new track for a Hungary free of state control of their lives. … That is, except those who tried to continue in the Communists way, i.e.
    Socialists, other fellow travelers.

  3. @Rev. Albert. W. Kovacs

    Reverend, I ask again: “What is your waist size?”

    I find that I can tell a lot about a priest from the size of his girth…

  4. @Spectator. You know how I feel about this topic. The lack of a general, well-grounded education is a real problem not just with him but with a lot of people who did not have what we call in this country a “liberal arts” education. Going from high school to law school or medical school results in these half-educated people who know very little about literature, history, art, languages, or music. In his case the problem was that he wasn’t much of a student even in high school. He spent every afternoon playing football. His grades accordingly were rather mediocre. He admitted in one of his early interviews that he was neither good in literature nor in history so he picked law. Well, that’s one way of deciding on a university career.

  5. I wonder what Rev. Albert W. Kovacs – UCC says about “a nemzet lelkesze – ifj. Hegedűs Lóránt “, still a minister of the Hungarian Reformed Church?

  6. Indeed, the absence of “liberal arts” more and more obvious in recent years, particularly sine the present “elite” rules. Of course, I understand that not everyone had the opportunity to get proper education, but still.
    I even have some understanding in the case of VO, the green grass of the soccer-field of Felcsút isn’t really the place to fell in love with literature or art. But if someone has an ounce of natural intelligence should be aware of his/her shortcomings and restrain him- or herself from lecturing on unknown topic unprepared.
    Another question entirely when someone so “great” by definition that simply can not fail…Might is right, isn’t it, dear Viktor?

    To me the final proof was the answer to prof Dávid Katalin regarding the symbolism of that dreadful memorial.
    Now we have it written and signed too, just how arrogant and illiterate the Hungarian PM really is, presented by himself! Congratulations..

  7. PETOFI – In case you wish to but me a new belt – mine just got too big and is on the last hole – my waist is 42″. But I can’t help it since my wife of 60 years is a great cook of Hungarian cuisine, and graces our table with palacsinta, guylás, tőlttőt káposta, kolbász, etc. … I just turned 85 on Tuesday, and have lost 20#. … In case you think I am wealthy, we live in the Bethlen retirement community (of the Hungarian Reformed churches) in a four room home. I gladly serve a small church 25 miles away, and it can’t pay me but pays for my car to travel. In my 60 years in ministry, I haven’t taken money for officiating at baptisms, marriages, funerals, etc., but lived on whatever the congregations provided, many in small coal mining towns.

  8. GDFXX – I’m disgusted with Rev. Lorant Hegedus, Jr., and cannot understand why the Church doesn’t take away his credentials. Good Christians cannot be apart of Jobbik’s intolerance. In 2000, I was in the church he serves for a special program in which Hungary’s old flags were brought in and its history celebrated, along with the 10th anniversary of the last Russian boots leaving Hungary’s sacred soil. I thought it was an appropriate event to celebrate. I never in the world thought it would deteriorate into the travesty of Jobbik and the revival of anti-Semitism. What a distortion of real patriotism, and Hungary’s wonderful multi-ethnic history with so many bringing the riches of their culture and wisdom. I think the proper word is borzasztó!

  9. London Calling!

    Reverend,

    You would be wise to keep one’s counsel when it comes to politics, as a still-practising man of the cloth.

    Clergy in England do not mix religion with politics. They understand the risks of balancing on the tight rope between the different factions of their congregations.

    You may think that your views are acceptable to the Hungarian Reformed Church, but they would not be acceptable to the other arms of the global nonconformist churches.

    Some think your views are extreme, based on ignorance – as more eloquent contributors on here have demonstrated.

    Would any of your congregation advise you that they disagreed with you and find you ignorant?
    No, of course they wouldn’t. They would remain silent and avoid your ministry.

    It takes contributors on here to apprise you of your ignorance.

    It might have been wiser to post without your title.

    As a man of the cloth I am deeply concerned for your flock.

    Another reverend of your branch of religion has caused consternation and brought your church into disrepute – the ‘Reverend’ Lorant Hegedüs.

    To have one controversial vicar is a misfortune, to have two looks like systemic evil ministry.

    Stick to religion and pogacha – drop the politics.

    Regards

    Charlie

  10. PETOFI – Your snide comment about Neanderthals = Hungarians is sick. This little country has produced so many intelligent and talented people in science, mathematics, art, literature, and many more mundane fields like sports. . . . When I was young, I never thought much about Hungarians – such a little, backward nation. But as I studied its history, and learned more over the years, I realized it had come a long way from its pagan and medieval days – far more than many others in the area. Its troubled history – French, German, Muslim, Russian rulers – has stifled the education of its people. It’s amazing that it’s been successful at all – especially since the super-intelligent neanderthals imposed the disaster of Trianon on Hungary and fostered WW2 with their non-answer to the ethnic and economic diversity off central Europe. – Frankly, your reply is an insult to a lot of hospitable and competent Hungarian people I met in Hungary, Slovakia, Romaania, etc. For shame!

  11. London Calling!

    “especially since the super-intelligent neanderthals imposed the disaster of Trianon…….”

    And from a minister of the Hungarian Reformed Church too.

    As I said, systemic, evil ministry.

    Regards

    Charlie

  12. ……so many intelligent and talented people in science, mathematics, art, literature, and many more mundane fields like sports. .

    And most of them had to leave Hungary to practice their discipline – eight Nobel prize winners, for example

  13. Reverend..

    I don’t know if you have heard of it but there’s a very wise book, held in esteem by many, but not me, called The Bible.

    Have you heard of it?

    Somewhere it says:

    “You have heard that it was said, ‘AN EYE FOR AN EYE, AND A TOOTH FOR A TOOTH.’ But I say to you, do not resist an evil person; but whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. If anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also.…”

    Would it not have been a better response to the “sick” Petofi?

    Just asking.

  14. CHARLIEH – If the clergy in America followed your advice, we would not be the USA but a colony of Great Britain. It was in the pulpits of the colonies that the American Revolution was born, led by the voices of its ministers – but opposed by the Anglicans who remained loyal to the tyrant in London. . . . It was in the pulpits that abolition from slavery was preached – and it was the ministers who led the way. . . . The civil rights movement in America was led by ministers, and not all were black by a long shot. . . . As the state president of Pennsylvanians for Human Life, I led the state prolife movement and succeeded in the legislature’s passage of the Abortion Control Bill, which saved many lives of the unborn and of women as well. . . . I think our way in America works better than your way! . . . Hungary’s Fundamental Law builds upon its revered Christian heritage, and so is despised by the atheists of all kinds. . . . Hitler sent clergy who spoke up to the concentration camps by the hundreds. Many died there. But we are urged on by the Scriptures to rescue those who are being led to the slaughter – and to take care of all our neighbors, not just those whom we like. When we stop doing that, then we are Christians no longer. . . . As Simon and Garfunkel remind us, the SOUND OF SILENCE is the worst sound at all. Elie Weisel, survivor of the Holcaust also reminds us, to be silent about the persecuted is the worst pain of all. So, I will speak up!!!

  15. Be that as it may, I was responding to your trading of insults with Petofi.

    You said “Your snide comment about Neanderthals = Hungarians is sick.”

    You then said “especially since the super-intelligent neanderthals imposed the disaster of Trianon…….”

    So to use your equation: super-intelligent neanderthals = the Allies is sick.

    Not very Christian is it?

    Not the sort of rhetoric one expects from an ordained member of the Hungarian Reformed Church.

    Your warped interpretation of American history is a complete non sequitur.

  16. CHARLIEH – It wasn’t the Hungarians who made them leave, but the barbaric Nazis and Communists! But it was HUNGARIANS who succeeded when given the opportunity! …
    Yes, I’ve read the Book. It is the first responsibility of government to protect the lives of the people. Jesus recognized the lawful role of government, and said pay your taxes to support the government – and HE did. He never told the Centurion, whose child he healed, to give up his sword. … Paul in his letters reminds us that the magisterium wields a sword to protect. … Now one is free to surrender his own life, but not the life of others. “Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.” (John 1:13 – See, I do read the Bible.) – But there is no right to give away another’s life, nor fail to protect his life! That, my friend, is a human imperative! … “Rescue those who are being taken away to death, hold back those who are stumbling to the slaughter.” God knows (who “weighs the heart”) if we do this, or allow them to be killed. (Proverbs 24:10-12) – You peddle simple answers for difficult questions, with your clichés. But real answers cost people like Bonhoeffer their lives, who chose to take part in an attempt to assassinate Hitler for the sake of the German people.

  17. CHARLIEH – It wasn’t “the Allies” but cocky politicians who drew up the disastrous Trianon Treaty, knowing they had all the answers (especially Clemenceau). They didn’t even invite the Hungarians to discuss it, but pushed their stupid paper for their signature, like it or lump it! By it Hungary lost 22/3rds of its land and 2/3rds of the Hungarian population. It didn’t solve the ethnic problem, and we saw the eventual split of the Czechs and Slovaks, Serbs and Croats, etc.

  18. @Rev. Albert W. Kovacs

    You can’t continuously blame the other guys when your own ruling class consistently bets on the wrong horses.

    From 1908 Tisza’s Hungary bet on Austria, backed by Germany, to be part of the succession to the Ottoman Empire in the Balkans. Wrong horse.

    Thirty years later Horthy’s Hungary bet on Germany to correct the effects of its previous mistake. Wrong horse, again.

    Are you sure you want to go for the hat trick?

  19. I’m not entering into a split-hairs dialogue.

    Just to let you know that you will abhor my views on Trianon (you deserved all you got, especially when Horthy was rewarded by Hitler as an ally) as I abhor your fundamentalist intolerant views on abortion and women’s right of control over their lives.

    QED

  20. It hurts to watch when a person with doubtlessly honest and good intentions fells for a conman – as is in the case of the Reverend and Orbán – just because the latter waving the national flag and the Holy Mary in every opportunity.

    You better wake up, Reverend, Orbán using and abusing your honest sentiments in order to achieve his selfish personal goal. In Your shoes I certainly would reconsider to support a traitor of the Hungarian nation, none the less.

    Just think about it sir:
    – When Orbán held his infamous speech in ’89 during the reburial ceremony of Imre Nagy, his latest buddy Vladimir Putin was the KGB resident in Dresden, Germany, who later on defended the Soviet – and Stasi – documents with drawn gun from the people of Germany…

    Today Orbán insist that he has made a pact with Russia, not with the Soviet Union.

    Are you really believe, that outside the colour of the flag Orbán’s and Putin’s intention changed a tiny bit since then?
    Reverend, you as a learned person really that easily fooled by a third rate opportunist? Orbán has a pact with the very same person, he put all the hopes and financial powers of Hungary to this only bet today, when he shouldn’t, when nothing on Earth motivating it, beside a hope for the ultimate personal gain.

    Please, give it some moments and think over what I just said, and give a chance to yourself and your sermon to reconsider, just what kind of person are you supporting really.
    With regards.

  21. I just found a report on the speech on this Hungarian news site (in English) that I haven’t seen before – sorry if it’s already well known.
    http://dailynewshungary.com/orban-hungarians-freedom-fighters/

    “(MTI) – Hungarians are freedom fighters who only feel good if they live in an “order of freedom”, Prime Minister Viktor Orban said in Sopronpuszta on Tuesday.

    Addressing a commemoration of the 25th anniversary of the Pan-European Picnic near the border with Austria, Orban said the level of freedom has indisputably improved over the past 25 years and in this respect the democratic transition has earned top marks. At the same time, inflation remains and state debt is high, while unemployment, public assets and public order have become worse, he added.

    Good performance should be kept and the bad must be changed, Orban said.”

    It all sounds strange, wishy-washy …

  22. CHARLIEH – You’ve read too many Commie revisionist history books about Hungary’s connections with Austria and Germany. – After her loss to Austria (due to Russia’s hordes joining the Habsburgs), Hungary was not permitted to have an foreign policy of its own, in military matters as well as foreign trade. In the “Dual Monarchy” Austria controlled these spheres, and higher grade officers still were under Austrian officers and the language was German! That was the sorry state of affairs before WW1, and also WW2. To condemn Tisza or Horthy is absurd under those conditions. They did the best they could under the worst of circumstances. In fact, Horthy despised Hitler. When the Nazis took over Hungary in 1944, they reduced Horthy’s influence to zero by taking him to Germany. That’s when their stool pigeons took over. For months the Nazis loaded the Jews from all around Hungary into the railroad cars off to death. But in Budapest under Horthy’s control they survived, until the final push when Horthy’s forces were inadequate to hold off concentrated German troops with the aid of the Arrow Cross (Jobbik’s predecessors). . . . With all the powers piling on decade after decade, it’s a wonder Hungary survives, a tribute to the deep roots of its people in their proud heritage! . . . P.S. – All a woman has to do to control her own body is to keep her pants on!
    But once a new life is conceived, with its own DNA as science tells us, another body requires her defense as a human being of the new life’s right to life! As the Nazi-martyred Dietrich Bonhoeffer explains, once they have conceived a new life the man and woman have already become parents! I make no apology for the defense of every life through all the years of its existence, even against the callous selfish interests of the parents.

  23. Reverend, Are you also a fan of the death penalty like most of your brethren who are against abortion?

    And your admiration for Horthy is really crazy – don’t forget he had two important squares named after Mussolini and Hitler – in 1936/1938 …

    Whatever he was – he sure was no democrat!

  24. London Calling!

    ” But in Budapest under Horthy’s control they survived……..”

    You and your other apologists keep repeating this :

    Horthy was responsible for setting the anti-Jew climate many years before your gendarmerie rounded them up for the the Germans. (You probably know better than me but are in denial – for example the numurus clauses and other discriminatory legislation.)

    He DID sign the order to send the Jews in the Yellow-Star houses in Budapest to the gas chambers. The progress of the allies prevented the gendarmerie from rounding them up and looting what possessions they had taken with them when they were ‘compressed’ into the Yellow-Star houses. And of course Churchill had stated that Budapest would be bombed if he moved the Jews.

    The Jews were ‘compressed’ into the Yellow-Star houses so Hungarians could steal the most desirable property – and the gendarmerie had first pick of their possessions – looting. When the Hungarians moved into their properties they had a ‘clean’ slate: before the Jews were moved they had to settle their utility bills. Nice touch that!

    When Jews living in blocks of flats were moved into their ‘compressed’ ghetto, those controlled by a Concierge – and most were then (they later became pivotal informers when Hungarian spied on Hungarian in later years) they lost their most treasured and valuable possessions to the concierge – who had first pickings.

    Many of the properties ‘nabbed’ by the squatting Hungarians just appropriated the furniture.

    This happened all over Hungary independent of the Germans. The Germans stole all the valuable moveable stuff and business assets after interrogating the Jews to ascertain where they had hidden their valuables – assisted in this enterprise by the Gendarmerie who were carrying out their own interrogations. The valuables then moved by rail – “The Hungarian Train”.

    The Soviets did you a favour because their administration of common ownership masked the true ownership of property, artwork and possessions such that very little was returned to the true owners – or their ancestors in later years. So many had been gassed too of course so there were no claimants to their possessions.

    Go to any ‘antique’ hall in Hungary. You can see many artefacts of dodgy provenance.

    What is the true ownership of many properties all over Hungary today?

    Horthy DID know of the fate of the Jews too – and he had such a guilt complex that he spent his last years in Portugal – he couldn’t face up to what happened – and what he had done to his Mother country.

    He only avoided being hanged after the war due to his friendship with the American ambassador who naively was unaware of his full complicity in the holocaust.

    And of course there is Hitler Adolph Ter named in 1938 and other ‘Ally’ indicators.

    Horthy was guilty as hell.

    Which is where he ended up, of course.

    Regards

    Charlie

  25. It’s hard getting through t some people: In the 1930’s Hungary was virtually powerless, having no standing army (due to the Trianon Treaty), and struggling to maintain its very identity and existence. Its actions, as you mentioned, were usually driven by the necessity of engendering publicly its “good will” – especially to these rising powers. Remember it was soon after that Hitler swallowed up Sudetenland and Austria itself. Would Hungary be next? Horthy was a shrewd politician maneuvering among the big players, when Mussolini was attempting to make its mark as a big player and Hitler was attempting to show that he had the local’s support for his takeovers. On the sidelines, the countries surrounding Hungary, who had been granted huge parts of its land, were vultures waiting to annex more – which would have obliterated Hungary. What’s naming a square after some nobodies, no one in Hungary would care, if it would keep them away from its door? . . . . You are willing to kill the defenseless and voiceless unborn children, chopping them up alive in utero, but question my support for the government’s execution of killers. – When I was a six year old, my Dad’s younger brother lived with us. He had a fine German Shepard dog named Bingo. Early in the morning he would let the dog our and it would jump several neighbor’s fences for exercise. One day Bingo didn’t return. He had jumped the wrong fence and was in a neighbor’s chicken yard – and the owner saw him among the chickens and shot him. Because our pet had become a predator the man was in his rights to shoot Bingo. – When a person forsakes his humanity and becomes as a predator, then the government is right to execute him, as the first obligation is to protect its people from further episodes by the predator. The commandment rightly translated is, Thou shalt not murder. That is a probation against taking another life for a personal reason. However, society may deem it necessary to prevent further life taking by an individual (or for defense in war) who has forsaken human respect for life by exercising the power of the sword against a predator.

  26. PS – “Probation” should be “prohibition” in the reply above. … He also let the dog “out.” … At 5:15 AM the typos come more frequently. I’d better go back to sleep.

  27. Reverend…

    You don’t get it. (Even if I don’t understand your last ramblings.)

    Horthy made his free choices and set the climate – not having an army is irrelevant.

    Just as Orban is today.

    He is making his choices and setting the climate – a climate of hate, antisemitism and ‘illiberalism’ – driven partially by Jobbik which you profess to hate.

    Oh yes he is ‘leading’ the Holocaust anniversary remembrances – but doing it cynically and deviously to maintain his power – not in conjunction with those who were most affected -Hungary’s beleaguered Jewry – and not for the best interests of Hungary, but for cynical self interest.

    When the outcry is over – just listen to the international outrage – people like you will be justifying what Orban did – because he had no choice blah blah blah.

    Just like all the other disastrous mistakes Hungary has made over the years.

    Orban is doing what he is doing in your name.

    Just as Horthy did in his day.

    If you had a decent democracy the opposition would be a restraining influence on his megolamania and his corruption.

    If you must involve yourself in politics then this could be most enlightening subject for your congregations.

    But of course, having a shackled media means you unaware of what is going on.

    I don’t thing you will live long enough to witness Orban’s final dénouement with what you and your generation have inflicted on the younger generation – those that have been foolish enough to stay that is.

    So continue your apologist intolerance.

    But if you do see Orbans fall and the demise further of Hungary, remember that you had the opportunity to change it.

    And don’t say you had no choice blah blah blah…

    My last sermon to you, Reverend. By all means have the last word.

    Regards

    Charlie

  28. @Charlie:

    We both know that it’s no use trying to reason with those “Christians”. He reminds me very much of this guy:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_A._Noebel

    Fifty years ago he wrote a book titled (no kidding!):

    Beatles want to sexually hypnotise you into Communism!

    From wiki:
    “He saw contemporary popular music as a Soviet plot to brainwash American youth. Unlike other religious critics of popular music, he backed up his analysis with references outside the Bible, using scholarly footnotes and quotations. His work was influential and widely adopted by later critics of rock music.”

    And of course he’s also against gays, abortion etc and probably calls Obama a “Socialist Muslim” …

    Yes, he’s still alive and fighting against the modern world – almost funny in a way.

  29. Rev. Albert W. Kovacs – UCC
    August 21, 2014 at 4:59 pm
    When the Communists was the only show in town, many interested in a better Hungary (e.g Gulyas Communism) worked inside the system. But when the Commies were out, they left the machine and struck out on a new track for a Hungary free of state control of their lives. … That is, except those who tried to continue in the Communists way, i.e.
    Socialists, other fellow travellers.

    When was t he last time you visited Hungary?
    WHat do you think of Orban communist past?
    What do you think of Orban admitting to lie in order to win the election?
    WHat do you think of Kover who worked for the communists before the changes?
    Just curious..

  30. Rev. Albert W. Kovacs – UCC
    August 22, 2014 at 12:12 pm
    It wasn’t the Hungarians who made [so many talented Hungarians leave] but the barbaric Nazis and Communists!

    Reverend, with so much misinformation and denial how can you stand infront of a congregation? You are spreading lies, just so many before you. PLease read some facts, and STATE some facts. Maybe what you meant is that barbaric Communists, like Orban and Kover?

    Róbert Bárány (22 April 1876 – 8 April 1936) was an Austro-Hungarian (jewish) otologist. For his work on the physiology and pathology of the vestibular apparatus of the ear he received the 1914 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine (No nazis or communists there.)

    Dennis Gabor CBE, FRS (original Hungarian name: Gábor Dénes; 5 June 1900 – 8 February 1979) was a (jewish) Hungarian electrical engineer and physicist, most notable for inventing holography, for which he later received the 1971 Nobel Prize in Physics. He served with the Hungarian artillery in northern Italy during World War I. Moved to Germany in 1918, than to England.

    John C. Harsanyi was born in Budapest, Hungary on May 29, 1920, the son of a pharmacy owner. His parents converted from Judaism to Catholicism a year before he was born.[2] He attended high school at the Lutheran Gymnasium in Budapest. During high school, he became one of the best problem solvers of the KöMaL, the Mathematical and Physical Monthly for Secondary Schools. Founded in 1893, this periodical is generally credited with a large share of Hungarian students’ success in mathematics. He also won the first prize in the Eötvös mathematics competition Eötvös for high school students.[3]

    John Charles Harsanyi (Hungarian: Harsányi János Károly; born May 29, 1920 – August 9, 2000) was a Hungarian economist and Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences winner. HIs parents converted from judaism a year before he borne) His father sent him to France in 1939 to enroll in chemical engineering at the University of Lyon. However, because of the start of World War II, Harsanyi returned to Hungary to study pharmacology at the University of Budapest (today: Eötvös Loránd University), earning a diploma in 1944.As a pharmacology student, Harsanyi escaped conscription into the Hungarian Army which, as a person of Jewish descent, would have meant forced labor. (It would of been the Hungarians who would of sent him for ford labour!)

    Hevesy György (1 August 1885 – 5 July 19660 was born in Budapest, Hungary to a wealthy and ennobled Roman Catholic of Hungarian Jewish descent family. Grandparents from both sides of the family had provided the presidents of the Jewish community of Pest.
    De Hevesy began his studies in chemistry at the University of Budapest for one year, and at the Technical University of Berlin for several months, but changed to the University of Freiburg. No nazis and commits there!

    Albert Szent-Györgyi de Nagyrápolt (September 16, 1893 – October 22, 1986) was a Hungarian physiologist who won the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 1937. His father, Miklós Szent-Györgyi, was a landowner, born in Marosvásárhely, Transylvania , a Calvinist, and could trace his ancestry back to 1608 when Sámuel, a Calvinist predicant, was ennobled. His mother, Jozefina, a Roman Catholic, was a daughter of József Lenhossék and Anna Bossányi. After WWI, Szent-Györgyi began his research career in Bratislava. He switched universities several times over the next few years, finally ending up at the University of Groningen, where his work focused on the chemistry of cellular respiration. This work landed him a position as a Rockefeller Foundation fellow at Cambridge University.
    No nazi persecution there or communist involvement.

    Eugene Paul “E. P.” Wigner ( November 17, 1902 – January 1, 1995), was a Hungarian American theoretical physicist and mathematician. He received a share of the Nobel Prize in Physics in 1963 “for his contributions to the theory of the atomic nucleus and the elementary particles, particularly through the discovery and application of fundamental symmetry principles” Now, he was an interesting fellow as even though he was jewish the family left Hungary because of Bela Kun. Later they returned, and in 1920 Wigner enrolled at the Budapest University of Technical Sciences, known as the Műegyetem. He was not happy with the courses on offer, and in 1921 enrolled at the Technische Hochschule in Berlin.
    No nazis and no Communists chased him away!

  31. Rev. Albert W. Kovacs: On the sidelines, the countries surrounding Hungary, who had been granted huge parts of its land, were vultures waiting to annex more – which would have obliterated Hungary.

    I’d be glad if you could give one single instance, past 1921, of a neighbor state showing any intention of ‘annexing more’ Hungarian territory.

  32. London Calling!

    MarcelI think the Reverend has done his usual….. Quit while losing!

    Wolfi yes a strange nutter!

    Some1 good list! But will be ignored by our Reverend.

    Regards

    Charlie

  33. Reading the Reverend’s postings one can better understand what Istvan tells us repeatedly about a large part of the Hungarians in the US. They are brainwashed by reverends like this one.

  34. Re the reverend. He really knows next to nothing about Hungary past or present. He doesn’t know the language but he has some romantic notions about the country of his mother. He is hopeless case.

  35. THere is nothing wrong wit hromantic notions about Hungary. WHat I do not understand why is he supporting so vehemently the Orban regime, when we are factually proving him over and over again that Orban and his company is bankrupting the country, and Orban himself was member of the communists that the Rev. hate so much and wants to protect us all from?
    The Rev, in fact starts to remind me of Csanady, the member of the Jobbik, the big anti-semite who learned that he is in fact a Jew. It makes me wonder if the Rev. hatred towards the people who he believes were communists steams from a dark past he harbours?

  36. @CharlieH

    The thing is, I’m always ready to acknowledge the numerous failures and hypocrisies of my own country’s foreign and economic policies between 1918 and 1939, and how they contributed to the race towards WW2. But I won’t do it with people who consistently get the facts wrong in order to whitewash their own country’s past.

    @Some1, Eva S. Balogh

    Hungary is often overlooked in comparative essays on Romanticism as both an ideological and artistic movement in Europe. That’s perhaps a mistake. I’m sure there must be Hungarian researchers working on the subject, and I bet the public would benefit to see the country’s history put through another perspective (instead of garbage like the ‘Hősök, királyok, szentek’ exhibition).

    Who knows, maybe it could even inspire some Hungarian artist to explore the legacies of these dark corners of European modernity (I love Wagner’s music, but there are parts in Tristan I find absolutely, physically, terrifying), in the line of Anselm Kiefer or Lars von Trier.

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