I was hoping that the English version of this letter would be available on the internet because I assume that it was the letter's English version that was delivered to the American ambassador. However, I looked for it in vain, and therefore I will attempt a translation of it here.
First something about the ambassador. In the last nine years there have been at least four U.S. ambassadors in Budapest. None of them career diplomats. Three were women, all important fundraisers for victorious presidential candidates: Nancy Goodman Brinker (2001-2003), April H. Foley (2006-2009), and currently Eleni Tsakopoulos-Kounalakis. The fourth, George H. Walker III, is the first cousin of George H. Bush (2003-2006). Eleni Tsakopoulos-Kounalakis is too new for me to pass judgment on her performance, but neither George H. Walker III nor April H. Foley made much of an impression on me. Nancy Goodman Brinker, however, was an outstanding ambassador who has developed, it seems, a lasting friendship with the country and its people. Among other things she has become a collector and promoter of contemporary Hungarian art.
Eleni Tsakopoulos-Kounalakis presented her credentials to the President of Hungary, László Sólyom, on January 11, 2010, and immediately committed a diplomatic faux-pas. She said that Viktor Orbán reminded her of Bill Clinton of twenty years ago. Considering that at the last U.S. elections Orbán was keeping fingers crossed for the Republicans, this was an odd remark from an Obama appointee. In any case, anyone interested in learning a little more about Eleni Tsakopoulus-Kounalakis should read György Lázár's piece in Élet és Irodalom.
On election night Eleni Tsakopoulus-Kounalakis visited the headquarters of the three "democratic" parties that will be represented in the Hungarian parliament. She didn't pay a visit to the headquarters of Jobbik. And here enters Krisztina Morvai, who got mighty upset at the U.S. ambassador's discrimination against her party. Morvai's letter turned out to be a bit long-winded and not without dramatic flourishes, and therefore I won't be able to translate the whole thing. However, I hope you'll be able to get the gist of it.
First, Morvai told the ambassador that it was from the newspapers that she learned about the ambassador's visit to the headquarters of only three parties, the "ones you consider democratic." It seems therefore that "you think that the MSZP is a democratic party although its predecessor professed the ideology of communism that was responsible for the death of 110 million people." By avoiding Jobbik as a non-democratic party, "you offended the victims of communism in addition to approximately 850,000 Hungarian men and women who voted for Jobbik."
"Let me point out to you that your ideas concerning democracy are rather peculiar. In fact, they are outright wrong." Morvai enclosed with her letter a 290-page book in which the Civil Legal Committee, Morvai's creation, outlined all the illegalities of the Hungarian police on October 23, 2006. "I suppose that this volume cannot be found in the library of the embassy because your government and diplomatic corps didn't show the slightest interest at the time of the bloody police terror that took place in the fall of 2006 in Budapest." Then she describes her own version of the events according to which "the police, directed by the government to be rough, shot at the peaceful demonstrators." First of all, it sounds as if the police used live ammunition and not rubber bullets. Second, while there might have been some curious onlookers who got mixed up with the raging mob who in spite of repeated warnings didn't leave the scene, in general her description of the events bears no resemblance to reality. If that weren't enough she goes on about tortured prisoners, show trials, many hundreds of people who were beaten half to death. And so on and so forth. The truth is that serious crimes were committed by the "demonstrators" and thanks to the very lenient courts, especially when it comes to the right side of the political spectrum, practically no one got punished.
"Where was the American diplomatic corps which considers democracy so important during these shameful events, Madam Ambassador? Please check why the American Embassy didn't answer the letter of the Civil Legal Committee in which I asked the American and other western diplomats to raise their voices and use their international authority and condemn the Gyurcsány government." Moreover, according to Morvai, the Americans are guilty in some other ways as well. They let the Gyurcsány and Bajnai governments rob the country blind, said nothing when they used "Israeli water cannons" to disperse peaceful people demonstrating on behalf of 100,000 hungry children, and let the Hungarian government imprison innocent people. "You consider a party democratic that trampled on all the values of democracy, on freedom, on human rights, and on human dignity?"
In addition to her book, Morvai also sent a copy of Jobbik's program which, according to her, demonstrates that Jobbik is the only party in Hungary that most clearly supports democratic principles. "You seem to be bothered by the unarmed Hungarian Guard that came into existence in self-defense at the time of police brutality." Then come a few interesting sentences. She compares the Hungarian Guard favorably to armed security companies hired by multinational companies or, even more interestingly to "a unified European police force" that is under consideration and which, in Morvai's opinion, lacks the approval of the peoples of Europe.
Then Morvai touts her credentials. She spent a year at the University of Wisconsin as a Fulbright visiting lecturer and subsequently four years in New York as an expert on human rights at the United Nations. She knows the American people, and she is sure that "they demand the representation of American ideals from you. They have the right to know which way their diplomatic representative in a former communist country behaves. They ought to know that you visited a party that is the successor to those communists who shot out innocent people's eyes. They ought to know that by your visit you may have increased this party's acceptance by the people." Therefore she is making this letter public in Hungarian and in English via the internet. She especially wants this letter to reach Hungarians living in the United States. She will ask them to give their opinion about the decision of an American diplomat to call MSZP a democratic party.
Can anyone imagine Ms. Morvai as the president of the Republic of Hungary, the post for which her party nominated her? As it is, she is an embarrassment in Brussels.
Hungarian Spectrum 
Well, here is someone who can imagine her as Hungary’s president. And I wish that it would happen soon, otherwise your kosher comrades will steal even the last morsel of Hungarian land.
I also wrote my answer to this stupid letter:
“Open letter attacking your ambassador to Hungary
To Madame Secretary,
Ms. Hillary Clinton
U.S. Department of State
Dear Madame Secretary:
Presently your ambassador to Hungary, Ms. Eleni Tsakopoulos Kounalakis, is the subject of a brazen attack from Ms. Krisztina Morvai, the EU representative of the Hungarian ultra-nazionalist party Jobbik.
Ms. Morvai, with the now well-known overstated righteousness of hers, besmirches your ambassador by questioning her conduct and besmirches her own political opposition, by lumping them all together.
It is my opinion that your ambassador, Ms. Eleni Tsakopoulos Kounalakis, has performed her duties correctly, by avoiding even the appearance of giving any support by withholding her visit to the Hungarian nazi party, the Jobbik, and by doing so, it is an actual mark of honor for her conduct.
I must congratulate you for appointing such courageous person, who’s understanding and sober common sense does credit to your policy and your judgement as well.
Best wishes”
morvai is completely justified in her outrage. diplomats have no right to dismiss the democratic will of the people, and play blantant partisan politics like that. who is ms Tsakopoulus-Kounalakis to tell the hungarian people which of its democratically elected parties are “democratic”? in a democratic country, that is THEIR choice to make. not hers.
this is a direct insult to almost one million hungarian people and reflects very poorly on the US government. im sure US diplomats have no problems meeting with party leaders of China – how “democratic” is that mob????
@Sandor: if you call such a great person’s letter “stupid”, that’s nothing more than your poor knowledge about Ms. Morvai.
In fact, the stupid is exactly you, for writing to Ms. Clinton a letter with a word “attacking”. I assume you also have very poor knowledge about the word “attacking”. Since everything can be fixed – I really believe, I think you should rather go back to school and learn a bit about words…
Ms. Morvai! This was needed, everybody in the world was waiting for such a letter, thank you!
And we really hope, that the new party called LMP – that is nothing more than a party in which are people from scientology and it’s the new-SZDSZ, will become very soon just a shameful part in Hungarian history.
“Ms. Morvai! This was needed, everybody in the world was waiting for such a letter, thank you!”
I don’t think they were somehow, but if it makes you feel better, then keep believing it.
Well, here is someone who can imagine her as Hungary’s president. And I wish that it would happen soon, otherwise your kosher comrades will steal even the last morsel of Hungarian land.
Mmm – if Ms Morvai represents the true Hungarian, then by all means elect her in the future. She appears to be an attention seeking loudmouth, so the position would suit her down to a tee.
“morvai is completely justified in her outrage. diplomats have no right to dismiss the democratic will of the people, and play blantant partisan politics like that. who is ms Tsakopoulus-Kounalakis to tell the hungarian people which of its democratically elected parties are “democratic”? in a democratic country, that is THEIR choice to make. not hers.”
Paul – I hate to break it to you, but the Ambassador is representing the US and if they choose not to visit Jobbik HQ, it’s up to them. Has she interferred in the democratic process – no she hasn’t. People have cast their vote and elected the MP’s they want.
But longer term, if the US decides it doesn’t want to deal with Jobbik and cools it’s relationship with Hungary, that is their choice. It no doubt has consequences for both countries.
Maybe it is an insult to the Jobbik voters – but tough luck mate.
The US ambassador has every right to “discriminate” Jobbik. Jobbik sides with Iran, with Russian nationalism, anti-Semitism. You cant dismiss these as “past” issues. If Vona goes out and speaks about calling in the Iranian guard, then its done. He said it, he took his side, its final, and its not the side of the normal world. You simply can’t disregard what a leader of a political party says. He has his responsibility as the leader, if it was a mistake, then let him say so.
And Jobbik is not a democratic party. No it isn’t. It is law-abiding, but it isn’t democratic. Again, one simply can’t disregard the things Vona and other leaders of the party said.
You can’t play politics assuming the others are totally stupid. You speak vehemently against the constitution a year ago, and want to be named to defend that same constitution a year later? You really think people are that stupid, and will let you?
Jobbik supporters should remember, that a lot of the political gamblers (dictators, warmongers, etc) actually got their power using democratic means. Mislead people voted for them, and when they got into power, they demolished those democratic principles they used to get into power. For an example i wont go as far back as Hitler, and remind you as how he rose to power, but instead point to Miloshevic. A dictator of Serbia, who 20 years ago rose to power using the Serbian nationalism, fanaticised the public against Albanians, and started a civil war against other nations of the former Yugoslavia. All in the name of Serbian right to own all the land where Serbians live. Whatever Jobbik supporters may think their political goal is, they are being mislead. Radical, irresponsible politics always leads to disaster. A don’t feel respect for the choice of Jobbik’s voters, but i do feel sorry for those voters, because they have been mislead.
my problem is not with the diplomat seeking to meet with only her preferred parties – that is her right to chose. the inference that jobbik is “undemocratic” (as opposed to simply stating she disagrees with them respectfully) is what is insulting and unjustified.
steve, are you now suddenly an expert on what is “democratic” and what isnt? to me, being “democratic” means respecting the democratic process, and not breaking its rules (corruption, campaign spending limits, voter databases etc). jobbik’s creditials in these matters are superior even to those of the mszp/fidesz. just because you disagree agree with jobbik, you label them as “undemocratic” – it is hypocritical in the extreme. this is what i have a problem with.
John T and Steve Although I have written about this point before I would like to take opportunity to bring it up again. Hungary is amongst the six nations who had to make an unconditional surrender in 1945 to the ‘United Nations’. As a result 5 of these nations in had to ‘buy’ peace, remove their status as ‘an occupied enemy’ and restore ‘self government’ etc. all were compelled to sign the Treaty of Paris (1948). One of the clauses in the Treaty of Paris (1948) is that the newly restored states and their governments (Hungary included) were forbidden to allow the resurgence of National Socialism (the actual words in the treaty is fascist political parties). Since Jobbik is by any form of judgement a National Socialist party it is therefore illegal. Being illegal it cannot exist.
Because the USA is one of the co-signatories as part of the victorious forces the US ambassador could not visit a party which by the peace treaty must not exist. The fact that it does exist is due entirely to the weakness of the previous government in that they did not suppress it as the treaty required them to do. Is this what Orban Victor meant when he said of the Magyar Guarda that he would smack their bottoms and send them home?
Paul – The explanation put forward by Odin’s lost eye likely covers the reason why. But if it doesn’t, then you need to ask yourself why Jobbik were snubbed.
I would also add that ethics and diplomacy don’t of course go hand in hand. I fully agree with your point about China and the regime that runs it. But China is a world economic and military power, so diplomacy continues and very little is done to confront its appalling human rights record. But compared to China, Hungary is irrelevant strategically – it threatens nobody and has nothing that the world can’t get elsewhere – at best Hungary will be an irritant rather than a threat to it’s neighbours (if for example it does attempt any miltary action in future, it will be attacking NATO rather than say Slovakia). So it’s easier for the US to make an ethical point with Hungary, even if you consider it hypocritical.
Given the context, Morvai is no bigger a clown than Sara Palin. Its unfortunate for Hungary that Morvai has a better chance of being elected President.
Matt: “Its unfortunate for Hungary that Morvai has a better chance of being elected President.”
Let’s not be that pessimistic.
@Paul
“steve, are you now suddenly an expert on what is “democratic” and what isnt?”
Not suddenly, i have seen what Miloshevic did to Serbia, so i do know what nationalistic fanaticism is. Sure, Hungary is not Serbia, but interestingly, the nationalistic fanaticism works the same way. I do see the same events and steps that have happened there prior to the war, happening now in Hungary. But there is a big difference, Jobbik did not win the election, not did it get into coalition with the winner, and it will ever.
Morvai deserves respect for her work on human rights, especially for speaking up against the brutal beatings on 23 October 2006. That she deserves. But the thing is, her role as fighter for human rights is just only one in the whole agenda that Jobbik is. The anti-semitism, the twisted pro-Iran rhetoric just makes Jobbik unfit to be an European party.
As i said, Jobbik is law-abiding, there are currently not much problems with that. But its not democratic. Its not, because the speeches Vona gave, tell that it is not. Maybe if ten years passes, and Vona behaves and speaks like a democrat, then he may be regarded as somewhat extreme, but still respecting democracy.
Consider it like this, the majority of the people doesn’t believe him to be a democrat, so consequently he is not.
Paul: “my problem is not with the diplomat seeking to meet with only her preferred parties – that is her right to chose. the inference that jobbik is “undemocratic” (as opposed to simply stating she disagrees with them respectfully) is what is insulting and unjustified.”
Respectfully? Since when do nazis deserve respect? Insulting nazis should be the duty of any of the ambassadors representing the U.S.A.
@kuruc@”your kosher comrades will steal even the last morsel of Hungarian land.”
kuruc is the most interesting poster. With kosher kuruc implies that the Jewish communists or the Jews are stealing Hungarian Land. And there was already under Horthy a precedent how to avoid this. There were several zsidotörveny, laws discriminating against Jews.
So why kuruc don’t you propose to pass again similar laws?
@karl. And they still say Jobbik is not anti-Semitic.
GDF: “Respectfully? Since when do nazis deserve respect? Insulting nazis should be the duty of any of the ambassadors representing the U.S.A.”
jobbik is not the NSDAP (i am very sick of pointing this out to ignorant foreigners). democracy is about respecting others’ point of view and freedom of speech, even if you disagree with them. may i point out that the mszp, being the ACTUAL successor party of the hungarian communists, are not discriminated against on this basis by western democracies in such a manner. they are not accused of being “undemocratic” by representatives of major world powers. may i also point out that american diplomats do not frequently boycott and insult many truly undemocratic parties, such as the chinese communist party.
jobbik is not legally, or ideologically, the successor party of any dictatorial regime. the “undemocratic” slur used against jobbik is completely baseless (jobbik’s strong committment to democracy is clear in both their program and their conduct during the election – in contrast to fidesz/mszp’s campaign spending infringements, voter databases and widespread corruption).
the loose and frequent use of this smearing word makes any TRUE democrat very suspicious of whoever is throwing it around so loosely. its sole purpose is to strangle the open debate which democracy requires to function.
jobbik clarifies such matters itself: http://www.jobbik.com/jobbik-announcements/3168.html
“jobbik is not the NSDAP (i am very sick of pointing this out to ignorant foreigners).”
Paul – whether you like it or not, “ignorant foreigners” see some parallels between the two. Only time will tell whether you or they are correct of course.
“jobbik is not the NSDAP (i am very sick of pointing this out to ignorant foreigners).”
History repeats itself; first as tragedy, then as farce.
NSDAP and the Arrow Cross were the tragedy; Jobbik the farce.
@Paul
As you are surely a Jobbik supporter, you can’t see things clearly enough.
You always go on and explain how Jobbik is democratic, “just because it said so”. Jobbik is currently respecting the law, but it is not the same as respecting the democracy.
You should remember the history: Hitler too came to power trough democratic election, and (mostly) respecting the written law. But as he came to position to change the law, he dismantled the democracy and built the most horrible dictatorship in history. That same “recipe” was used in Serbia, and in different places throughout the world, and what people right now see in Jobbik, is that same tendency.
You can tell that you are democratic as much as you like, but people wont believe you. Because the leaders of Jobbik publicly told things that a democratic leader wouldn’t ever say.
Its not just the law that matters, the observable intention matters too.
have i ever said “just because it said so”? no – i judge on ACTIONS and EVIDENCE. you have completely ignored jobbik’s conduct in the elections – and most of what i just wrote. did jobbik break the campaign spending limits? no. does jobbik maintain illegal voter databases? no. does jobbik’s program (and “rhetoric”) support increased anti-corruption and political transparency measures, as well as the decentralisation of powers? yes.
you honestly think jobbik will “dismantle democracy”? or are not “respecting the democracy”? with what evidence? (reporters referring to jobbik as “facist” is not evidence. it is bias – the enemy of free debate.) jobbik have never said any words to this effect and never will.
what most people “see in jobbik” is the disgusting picture the media paints – until they bother to acquaint themselves personally with the party and sees the media lies for what they are.
“As you are surely a Jobbik supporter, you can’t see things clearly enough.” are you trying to imply that anyone who supports jobbik is too dumb to be critical of them? would you make this statement about an mszp or lmp supporter? i was not born a jobbik supporter. i had never heard of the party until recently when newspapers started calling them “facists”. at which point i decided to investigate these claims for myself, being personally opposed to corruption and dictatorship in any form. what i found in jobbik was the total opposite of what is reported – i realised i had merely been as misled by the media as you are now.
“You can tell that you are democratic as much as you like, but people wont believe you. Because the leaders of Jobbik publicly told things that a democratic leader wouldn’t ever say.” i noticed (as usual) you have no evidence to support this, nor any of your other spurious (ridiculous, and irrelevant) historical comparisons. note that mr gyurcsany set the bar rather low for “democratic leaders” with his famed speech. i am yet to hear vona gabor say such things. nor has vona said anything like “we are buying up hungary” (or anywhere else) which according to the media was entirely fine for mr peres to say as a “democratic leader”. is the chinese communist party a “democratic party”? i haven’t heard of any US dipolmatic boycotts against them this year…
“the observable intention matters too.” the “observable intention” is spelled out quite clearly in their election program – which you won’t have read im sure. find out what jobbik ACTUALLY stand for here: (if you can’t read hungarian)
http://jobbik.com/temp/Jobbik-RADICALCHANGE2010.pdf
if you are looking for a racist, facist, undemocratic party, you will be sadly disappointed to find nothing of the sort in jobbik. the shameful lies directed (solely) against this party should disgust any true democract who favours honesty and debate over smears and boycotts (like i do).
but what do evidence and truth matter when we are fighting “nazis”, right steve? the media is perfectly unbiased and without any agenda at all, right steve? anyone who isn’t a liberal is “undemocratic”, right steve?
I’m inclined to lay off on Ms Morvai. She’s an unwell and deeply insecure person. She’s useful to the thugs at the top of Jobbik, and someone that damaged needs to take her self-esteem from wherever she can get it. Vona’s flattery and the adulation of the crowd for “Dr” Morvai Krisztina is her therapy.
She’s not the key to Jobbik; she’ll never be president. The moment she becomes inconvenient to the party, they’ll drop her without hesitation.
@ Paul. You are quite right Paul, that actions speak louder than words. I have been to Jobbik rallies, and they are full of anti-Semitism, hatred towards gypsies, and the presence of uniformed thugs such as the Garda and the so -called Nemzeti Orsereg, that even more openly flirts with the Arrow Cross than the Garda. Gabor Vona cracks anti-semitic jokes, Lorant Hegedus and Krisztina Morvai rant against Jewish bankers. The racism and anti-Semitism is abudantly and openly present in Jobbik, and it is pathetic to refer to a party programma as evidence to the contrary. The programme is a white-washing exercise, used to present the party as “normal”. But which normal democratic party has a paramilitary wing? The leader of which normal democratic party will go into parliament wearing the uniform of an outlawed organisation? Which normal democratic party in Europe you know of supports thugs and criminals like Budahazy?
Jobbik actions speak far louder than words. Like the communists before them, they will simply re-define the word “democracy” to suit their purposes. They do this much the same manner as communists attacked liberal democracy before 1989, and islamic radicals do nowadays. Morvai uses the language of democracy and liberalism to attack democracy and liberalism.
In any case, Jobbik propagandists are utterly stupid if they think their “programme” will convince western observers of their democratic credentials. It is written in the vicious tone normal for Eastern European nationalists such as Milosevic. This is, I suppose, because Jobbik spokesmen are navel-gazing nationalists who don’t have a clue how foreign journalists really think (although Andras Kiraly was admittedly very well attuned with western liberal values).
As content goes, with its blend of Christianity, national mysticism and collectivism it obviously harks back to the Arrow Cross. There is nothing democratic about the threat to expel gypsies, clearly present in the party programme.
Only a fool would take that programme at face value.
“If Solomon wants to buy land (in Hungary), well… we’ll have a few conditions. Firstly, Sol you’ll need to prove that you’ve lived in Hungary for ten years. And not only that you’ve lived here ten years, but also that you’ve lived off the land […] that farming is your profession. You’ll need a certificate that you’ve passed an advanced Hungarian language test in Rigó utca [the state language centre – editor’s note] in front of an examination board consisting of members of the Hungarian Guard. You’ll need to graduate at a college of agriculture, the exam rules of which we are yet to figure out. But we already have our first must-answer question: list all the kings of the Árpád dynasty, with dates, within one minute, backwards. And when you’re done, get up to the President’s palace where dr. Krisztina Morvai will be waiting for you. She has two stamps. One says “Our Kind” and the other “Your Kind” and she will decide which one you belong to.”
Paul – this has been published on a number of internet sites, part of one of young Gabor’s speeches apparently. The language is very provocative, primarily directed at Jewish investors, but in reality directed at any foreigners. Maybe you don’t see a problem with it. But in most mainstream european societies, the language would be seen as unacceptable. But I doubt you really care about that. After all, foreigners are ignorant of course.
But the irony of course is that if the terms were applied equally to everyone, most Hungarians would also probably fall foul of at least one of the provisions.
If you really support the idea of Hungary for the Hungarians, I take it that you’ll not want any further assistance or investment from foreigners. And I take it you’ll be quite content if other countries decide to play the discrimination game with Hungary – there are probably 40,000 Hungarian nationals that can be packed off back to Hungary from the UK for starters, if we decide to close our labour markets to Hungarians.
Surely, a sensible land policy, where experienced foreign farmers invest in good farming technics and machinery, providing good quality jobs to locals, is far more preferable to the current state of play, where farmers struggle to make a living. If they do it in partnership with Hungarian investors and farmers, even better. But the idea that people are stealing the land is frankly laughable. What do these nasty foreigners do – dig it up and smuggle it out in lorries. The land will always be Hungarian – but it must make sense to use it effectively.
@John T. That, was part of Gabor Vona’s March 15 speech. The last sentence is reminiscent of Mayor of Vienna Karl Lugar’s remark “I decide who is a Jew”.
The opposition to selling land or housing to foreigners is based purely on mysticism and is against the direct interest of many Hungarians. What if you are Hungarian and want to SELL your house or plot of land? A great many Hungarians have benefitted from selling their homes at inflated prices to Irish investors. Under Jobbik, they will have to sell it at substantial losses to a smaller market of penniless Hungarians.
PassingStranger – indeed. Where there is a buyer, there is a seller and most sellers have been Hungarian so far.
And in the scenario you outline, the market goes downward until it is worthless. It will achieve the objective of keeping the land Hungarian of course. But at what cost – lots of smallholders struggling to survive on their plots and finding their crops are too expensive to sell anywhere outside Hungary. Ultimately, you’ll have the same mediocrity that existed under Communism. Again, the irony is darkly amusing.
John T. Do not worry what the ‘Trolls’ tell you about Jobbik not being a National Socialist party. Remember the old ‘acid test’ of “If looks like a cow, gives milk and goes ‘Moo’, it is a cow!
Using this test look at the pronouncements of the leadership of Jobbik and compare these with the pronouncements and actions of Nazi in Germany, the Fascists in Italy, the Falange/Carlist in Spain and the Arrow Cross in Hungary and the Estado Novo in Portugal. At that point you can ’rest your case’ as they say in court.
The U.S. ambassador to Hungary would have cleared her actions with the State Department in Washington. Because of the sensitive nature of her mission it would have been cleared at very high level, perhaps even with the Oval Office its self.
Finally remember the unofficial words to the old march called ‘Colonel Bogey’ (it is on Wikipedia). There is one thing for sure Morvai has the same condition as old Goebbels for sure.
To Paul: “are you trying to imply that anyone who supports jobbik is too dumb to be critical of them?”
I am afraid, it is more than just a supposition, or an implication. It is my definite opinion to be so. If anyone is dumb enough to support them, then he is surely dumb enough to be sycophantic towards them.
But dumb alone will not do. He must also be evil. And as I see, he is. They are.
To bbking: I call them, as I see them. If I see it to be stupid who the hell are you to doubt my judgement? The letter is stupid and so is anyone else, who agrees with it. And if you don’t like it you might as well just lump it.
To kuruc joska: “otherwise your kosher comrades will steal even the last morsel of Hungarian land.”
The last time I looked, all the land was still there and nobody carried away any of it to Israel. Or anywhere else. Only a blind dolt like you and your comrades in stupidity can claim such idiocy.
Since we are discussing this ugly duckling of Hungarian politics, let me call your attention to the Morvai website: http://www.morvaikrisztina.com/
Kuruc Joska:
Your argument seems to be that because the Jews were expelled from most European countries therefore they must have been destroying those countries.
That doesn’t really work. It is like saying that Protestants must have been destroying France or there would not have been the St Batholomew’s Day massacres or “kulaks” must have been destroying the USSR or there wouldn’t have been the 1930s famines.
To Kuruc Joska, I deleted your post. This is an English-language blog and no non-Hungarian comments are allowed.
“But the idea that people are stealing the land is frankly laughable.”
Yeah, the Palestinians for example, just can’t stop laughing …
Eva S Balogh
“no non-Hungarian comments are allowed”
Why are YOU posting in non-Hungarian???
David,
What you say might sound like wisdom, but think about this for a second: None of those countries had problem with people of an other religion (jews)(except when they do their little blood rituals of course). The problem starts when instead of being a productive members of the society they use their host country’s social system and governmental body to their own benefit (through cheating lying and blackmailing – after all these are all allowed, as longs as you do it to the goys,right ) and to the point where the host country cannot function any more – then they’ll get booted out every time without a fail. Could all those countries before be mistaken. I do not think so. You can be sure that it will happen in Hungary too (again)..
And BTW before anybody would jump down my throat, please take a few hours to read Henry Ford’s book “The International Jew”
http://www.jrbooksonline.com/Intl_Jew_full_version/ijtoc_.htm
Now keep in mind this was written in 1920, and yet you can just see the same thing happening here in Hungary in 2010.
Joska:
“What you say might sound like wisdom, but think about this for a second: None of those countries had problem with people of an other religion (jews)”
Clearly you know next to nothing about European history if you believe that there was universal religious tolerance in the middle ages. While there was often de facto tolerance of minorities there could also be intense persecution.
Look at the events of the Albigensian Crusades or the Thirty Years War for examples of religious expulsions and massacres, which were fairly commonplace in the era before freedom of religion became widely accepted.
The examples you give show the intolerance of medieval authorities, not the guilt of those expelled or persecuted. I am sure that the perpetrators of the St. Bartholomew’s Day massacre had some sort of rationale based on the evils of the Protestant Hugenuots, but as I say this does not make the rationale true.
Ironically Hungary was one of the first countries to move towards religious freedom with the Edict of Torda in 1568.
I suppose the primary difference between conservatism and nationalism is that conservatism regards the traditions of the nation as important and to be valued. Religious toleration is a Hungarian tradition to a much greater degree than is the case in most surrounding countries.
Nationalism on the other hand attaches supreme importance to creating a theoretical definition of who is and who is not part of the nation and of seeking to apply this artificial theory to real life.
David!
You make my point even stronger… Hungarians do not have a problem with a different religion. We do have a problem however with Jewish influence in/on the Hungarian government and the media, education, justice etc..
I’m just one out of many Hungarian nationals who ran away from Communist 30+ years ago. I found refuge and a new home in the United States and became an American citizen.
It is a shame that after the so called “Hungarian Revolution” the Communist still have a seat in the Hungarian Parliament to rule. The Communist system has lived just long enough to prove that its methods of treating people are equal with that of Fascism. Let me remind everyone just once more what a cruel and terrorizing system Communism was… It robed human beings from their dignities, freedom to choose and life.
After many decades of oppression, I do see a spark, a light of hope for this tiny nation / country called Hungary.
If you’ve studied history it is very obvious that America never really cared about Hungary or its people… Hungarians were thrown to the Soviets after WWII without a blink of an eye; Austria got lucky because of Winston Churchill and remained on the Western side. Remember the 1956, uprising in Hungary against the Communist…; no-one came to Hungary’s aid! You were left alone with Mr. Kadar Janos and his invited guests the Russian Communist…
So, my advice to you is to fight for your Country, be humane with everyone who is willing to work and earn an honest living, strive for excellence and restore your Country little by little. Bring it up to the standards that exist in Germany and other Western Countries today. Don’t expect big things from the United States or the European Union. Always do what is right for Hungary and its people and stick to your guns :–}.
Congratulations to those who are responsible for initiating the new laws that recognize and embrace all Hungarian nationals who live in the neighboring countries (thanks to the treaty from Triannon :–{) and around the World. Congratulations ones again, you are on the right path, keep on doing what you set out to do and unite the Hungarian Nation. United you will be stronger and your voice will be heard. Make us all proud that we were born Hungarians!
Miss Morvai Krisztina should ask for a meeting with the American Ambassador in Budapest and express her views and opinions in a peaceful and constructive manner. She should also ask for an explanation from the Ambassador why she elected not to visit and congratulate her winning party after the elections. Maybe Miss. Morvai Krisztina should explain the direction and philosophy of her party to the Ambassador so she clearly understands what the party stands for.
In my opinion there is a lot of truth in her letter, however the presentation and tone of it wasn’t quite right. Be more of a Diplomat, let’s learn from our sad history and be more strategic. If you know that you’re right and didn’t get the justice that is deserves take your agenda higher up and never give up. The key to your success is that you present the issues in a civilized – peaceful and comprehensive fashion, deliver it over and over again in front of International Comities and never give up.
Hey, don’t mix nazi with nationalist. Jobbik is nationalist but not nazi. Jobbik fights against crime – jails are full with gypsies so everyone can state that most of criminals in Hungary are gypsies. Certainly not all gypsies are criminals. Just check out Ms Morvai’s videos on youtube to see how majority of gypsies live despite of 20 years of positive discrimination. Can you imagine a gypsy family in your neighborhood who steals your life away? And police does nothing. Youngsters who cannot be sentenced by law kill old womens for a value of a bread. When the gypsies’ neighbor relocates to another house to save its life gypsies go into the abandoned hause and rob even the electricity cables out from the wall. This is done only by gypsies. Fuck this independent media.
Here’s wishing “20 years of positive discrimination” on Laszlo.
And a Jobbik government.
Bloody hell – I’ve only just read this thread (I missed the original post). I’ve never read such rubbish on HS, even when our regular trolls were posting.
I hope it’s very clear to all the regulars that the ‘Paul’ who was posting earlier is NOT me.
@Steve. Milosovic responded to 20 years of Albanian terror and ethnic cleansing(see David Binders reports from the NY Times in the 80’s)of Serbs, Rom, Gorani and others. Milosovic was responding to this and to daily terror. If the US was son concerned with ethnic cleansing why didnt they bomb Tirana? Pristina?http://kunstradio.at/WAR/binder-nytimes.html
Operation Storm, during which the fascist Croatian army moved out 2-3 hundred thousand Serbs, with American help. Naser Oric and the thousands of Serbs he tortured and eradicated, on video, in the then little known town of Srebenica…then, when Serbs come to exact revenge? Its a holocaust, a genocide. Milosovic was one of many monsters, but not the first not the sole monster. That would be whoever is US President. I know, Im American Indian. The Constitution is a fine document, if you aren’t Native American. Hitler was awed at how the US erased the Indians. Americas foundation is built on lies and murder, she will collapse, unlike the CCCP , she will devolve into a Somalian cesspool.As anti-Semitic as her statements are, it is her country, yes?Whats odd is her human rights work and then Jobbiks hatred of Gypsies.Very illogical.The Left in Europe has overplayed their hand, by left I mean too the liberal marketeers who rape the coffers as the liberals welcome every scum nation to elbow out the natives.