Orbán’s election campaign has already begun

The incredible anti-Bajnai campaign that has been launched by CÖF (Civil Összefogás Fórum) led by Sándor Csizmadia and other organizers of the two peace marches demonstrates that the current government is afraid of  Gordon Bajnai. As they should be. He is everything Viktor Orbán is not. The contrast cannot be greater. Bajnai is modest and soft spoken, Orbán is loud and has an inflated opinion of himself. Bajnai is quietly competent while Orbán twice proved that he is not fit to run a government. Bajnai is not really a politician while Orbán is a master of political intrigue, but his talents seem to stop at ruining the reputations of his political opponents.

People who are familiar with advertising rates estimate that this particular anti-Bajnai campaign has cost at least 100 million forints. The poster pictures Bajnai with Ferenc Gyurcsány as the latter is whispering something into Bajnai’s ear. The text is cleverly crafted. Gyurcsány-Bajnai Alliance appears in the lower lefthand corner. Large letters proclaim that “Together they ruined the country.” The word “together” is in red, which is obviously designed to call attention to Bajnai’s new formation, “Together 2014.” The text continues: “Once was enough. We don’t forget.”

The infamous anti-Bajnai poster allegedly financed by a civic group

Clearly the election campaign has begun, albeit unofficially. The method adopted here foreshadows what will most likely happen after the 2014 election campaign officially kicks off. From what we know of the new election law, it contains several stringent restrictions on advertising. We still don’t know whether government subsidies to the parties will be reduced or not. At one point Viktor Orbán talked about abolishing the current party financing because of  hard economic times. So, we can’t quite discount the possibility that the two-thirds majority will vote to change the party financing law and reduce the subsidies to insignificant amounts or even to zero. In that case Fidesz, using government money funneled through its civic groups, will spread the party’s slogans all over, on every bus and every surface available for advertising purposes, while the opposition will be invisible. It is that simple.

I think it is also worth talking a little bit about the Fidesz strategy of linking Bajnai’s name to that of Ferenc Gyurcsány. Some people are convinced that Ferenc Gyurcsány’s return to politics a year ago gave Viktor Orbán the opportunity to tie him to Gordon Bajnai in the here and now. They claim that Gyurcsány should have disappeared and that in that case Gordon Bajnai’s situation would be much easier. I think this line of reasoning is mistaken. I am sure that Orbán would have used the same strategy even if Gyurcsány had disappeared from the face of the earth. Orbán with the assistance of Tibor Navracsics and Zsolt Semjén managed to ruin Gyurcsány’s reputation. The very fact that Bajnai served in Gyurcsány’s government gives them a fantastic opportunity to repeat the performance, with Bajnai in the cross hairs this time around. These guys are skilled political assassins.

Here’s one illustration of my point. A few days ago Heti Válasz displayed a picture that linked Gordon Bajnai to Bálint Magyar (SZDSZ), who was minister of education between 1996 and 1998 and again between 2002 and 2006. Magyar is not involved in politics today, but that didn’t seem to prevent the pro-government publication from describing them, in the words of the article’s title, as “Birds of a feather flock together.” One should keep in mind that SZDSZ’s logo depicted a bird in flight.

Gone is Bálint Magyar, gone is SZDSZ, but it doesn’t matter. The vicious campaign will continue, linking his name with anyone who has ever served with him in the same government.

The question, of course, is whether it will work or not. Most of the people who were asked their opinion of the current anti-Bajnai campaign refused to answer. “I don’t know anything about politics.” Or, “I am not interested in politics.” Only a few dared to tell the questioning reporter that they find the campaign disgusting. One woman went so far as to say that she likes both men.

While this concerted effort at discrediting Bajnai is proceeding apace, LMP is falling apart. Gergely Karácsony announced only a few days ago that a breakup of LMP was “out of the question,” but by yesterday Benedek Jávor wasn’t that categorical. Because Jávor resigned as leader of the LMP caucus, the parliamentary group had to choose a new leader. There were four nominations, but three of the candidates refused to be nominated. András Schiffer, even though last week he announced that he was not willing to take the post, suddenly became much more willing. The trouble was that the eight LMP MPs who formed a platform called “Dialogue for Hungary” refused to vote for him. And since they are in the majority, Schiffer’s nomination was voted down 8-7.

Schiffer and a few of his followers left the meeting early. To the reporters’ questions about the outcome of the meeting Schiffer replied: “I was told that I’m supposed to eat what I cooked but they didn’t give me a fork and knife to eat it with.” Meanwhile Gábor Scheiring called Schiffer “the most divisive person in the party” who is unfit to lead a deeply divided caucus.

My sense is that those who are fed up with Orbán’s regime (and their numbers are growing) will demand unity and will punish LMP if  they stand by their decision to boycott Bajnai’s “Together 2014.” I’m also noticing a mellowing in certain liberal circles toward Ferenc Gyurcsány. People have begun to appreciate his steadfast efforts to call attention to the dangers of a stolen election in 2014. The fact that he and his party are ready to cooperate with “Together 2014” without any preconditions also endears him to those who are disgusted with the Schiffer-wing of LMP. I will be really curious what the next polls will tell us. There might be a few surprises.

81 comments

  1. We can all see what is going on. There is no question about that. My question is actually a very simple one: Why Bajnai’s supporters come up with the money to finance a campaign that shows that actually it is Matolcsy, Orban and their plagiarizing friends who are taking Hungary to the depth? Gyurcsany, Bajnai and many others who support him are very wealthy people. WHere is the money? Or it is that only Fidesz has the rich supporters and Bajnai’s friends are all relatively poor? I am very serious with these questions.

  2. Am I correct in assuming that a “civic group” is much the same as a PAC here? Is Edgyutt 2014 not still a civic group? What, apart from funding, of course, would prevent them from running a rebuttal campaign?

  3. MS KKA: Other than money, running such a campaign needs places where Egyutt 2014 can advertise. Public media is government controlled, private tv and press is intimidated to run ads attacking the government (fearing a backlash from the government). The billboards are owned by the company of Simicska, a Fidesz-crony… so advertising space for the opposition is already seriously limited. It will only get worse with the new electoral law, which will further limit political advertising. Practically, in the election campaign, political parties will only be able to advertise on public tv (run by the government) and billboards (Fidesz-controlled). Political advertising, for example, on commercial TVs, will not be allowed.

  4. Based on the darker and darker aspects of the expected 2014 elections I really wonder what would stop the present government to steal the election, regardless of the actual percentage of the vote they will get.

    Following the Chinese model, at the end of the elections the new Politburo with Orban leading will parade in front of the applauding parliament (which by now will be 99.69% FIDESZ). And those who dare to protest will be locked up or worse, also based on the Chinese model.

  5. An :
    MS KKA: Other than money, running such a campaign needs places where Egyutt 2014 can advertise. Public media is government controlled, private tv and press is intimidated to run ads attacking the government (fearing a backlash from the government). The billboards are owned by the company of Simicska, a Fidesz-crony… so advertising space for the opposition is already seriously limited. It will only get worse with the new electoral law, which will further limit political advertising. Practically, in the election campaign, political parties will only be able to advertise on public tv (run by the government) and billboards (Fidesz-controlled). Political advertising, for example, on commercial TVs, will not be allowed.

    An, as I asked above, “Where is the money?” I yet to read a single article that the advertising campaign was not executed because there were not able to rent advertising spaces. Until I read a single factual article about opposition parties advertising being tuned away, anything you wrote is a theory.
    Maybe it will happen, but for goodness sake, who holds Bajnai back to try it?

  6. One more thing, if they will not able to advertise, then at least there is some factual issue to start lobbying or file complaint at the EU.

  7. @Some1

    “A provision of the Mass Media Act prohibiting any political advertisements outside of election periods has affected media outlets in Hungary. The law fails to define clearly what constitutes political advertising. Since November 2011, Nepszava, a daily newspaper based in Budapest, has received requests to publish advertisements for political rallies protesting the government. It has been reluctant to publish any of these advertisements, however, due to fears that Nepszava would fall foul of the ban on political advertising.[10] In January 2012, Nepszava finally decided to publish an advertisement announcing a protest, and as of the end of January it had not heard from the Media Council that the move breached the regulations.”

    http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/02/16/memorandum-european-union-media-freedom-hungary

  8. I was truly amazed this summer hearing how successful the anti-Gyurcsany hysteria was. The FIDESZ practically made him a household name for disaster. Many people, especially older generation, din’t care at all about facts, lack of evidence, they just keep repeating hypnotized the wildest stories about Gyurcsany’s mental illness for instance. They sucked in everything the FIDESZ fed to them. Very sad.

    This genuine stupidity of the Hungarian public should be harnessed in some positive way, like in anti-smoking propaganda – “Cigarettes kill you like Gyurcsany”. On a serious note there should be banners that compare Gyurcsany with Orban. Of course these zombies don’t really care about facts.

    Well the gloves are off. We shouldn’t go easy on them. We should ridicule them every way possible. And these guys are an endless supply of mindless, stand up comedy ready, idiotic decisions. Like they just figured out that that winter is a serious social problem and they assigned a government undersecretary in charge of winter. First I thought this is an attempt to make the Hungarian children believe in Santa Clause again, but then the smile froze on my face. They are really this stupid.

  9. I was wondering for how long the anti-IMF posters, government “information” paid for by my taxes, would stay up – in Debrecen they’d been prominently displayed for a couple of months, or so it seemed, and then one day last week they were all gone and the exact same spaces now had the anti-Bajnai stuff described above. I would love to see some punching back.

  10. An :
    @Some1
    “A provision of the Mass Media Act prohibiting any political advertisements outside of election periods has affected media outlets in Hungary. The law fails to define clearly what constitutes political advertising. Since November 2011, Nepszava, a daily newspaper based in Budapest, has received requests to publish advertisements for political rallies protesting the government. It has been reluctant to publish any of these advertisements, however, due to fears that Nepszava would fall foul of the ban on political advertising.[10] In January 2012, Nepszava finally decided to publish an advertisement announcing a protest, and as of the end of January it had not heard from the Media Council that the move breached the regulations.”
    http://www.hrw.org/news/2012/02/16/memorandum-european-union-media-freedom-hungary

    THank you, but did Nepszava publish Fidesz advertisements at the same time? I am not talking about the confusion caused by various legislations, I am talking about an example of Bajnai putting his anti-Orban ads on the remaining buses.
    “”He pulls a knife, you pull a gun. He sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue! That’s the Chicago way, and that’s how you get OrbanCapone!”
    Malone Sean Conneri in the Untouchables

  11. gdfxx :
    Based on the darker and darker aspects of the expected 2014 elections I really wonder what would stop the present government to steal the election, regardless of the actual percentage of the vote they will get.
    Following the Chinese model, at the end of the elections the new Politburo with Orban leading will parade in front of the applauding parliament (which by now will be 99.69% FIDESZ). And those who dare to protest will be locked up or worse, also based on the Chinese model.

    I agree. This campaign is all ‘front’. It is all decided: the foreign votes will be monstrously in
    Orban’s favour–legitimately or not. But Stalin’s words wil also play a role: “Democracy is not about voting; it’s about who counts the votes.”

  12. When it’s all said and done, and the shards of a broken country lie at the feet of the Bekemenet boys and girls, we will here the old German refrain of 1945: “We were innocent.
    We were fooled. What could we do?” But rachet back the films to 1940 and watch the enthusiastic salutes to Herr Hitler–those were some excited, exhilerated folks.
    Bekemenet, take note….

  13. London Calling!

    Like Paul and Minusio and others – I am deeply sceptical as to what success can be had in the next ‘elections’.

    Whilst the election will probably be an Orban walkover, and I am deeply worried about democracy in Hungary – I am not advocating giving up.

    If not least for the reason that for external democracy ‘guardians’ to assist then the opposition must have been seen to put up some sort of spirited campaign – to have failed reasonably – but preferably heroically.

    With the ‘stitching up’ of all the usual communication sites by Fidesz, with the concomitant skewed electoral laws – and the clearly ‘illegal’ knocking copy on the buses and elsewhere – it calls for special measures.

    The opposition ‘rump’ – must at least start organising now – if not earlier! Even if they can’t knock some sense into LMP – they are wasting valuable time.

    Taking a leaf out of Barack Obama’s book – when his recent victory was as a result of more consolidated support than many pundits realised – the Hungarian opposition should harness all the facilities that social media and the internet can offer. As Obama did.

    Orban can’t control that fully yet – it is still beyond his dictatorial axe.

    Obama’s consolidated success was partly because of the ‘internet infrastructure’ he had put in place during his first election campaign.

    This is the Hungarian opposition’s best hope. And it should have already been organised. And if it fails this time then the infrastructure will be in place for next time.

    Quite a few English ‘partisans’ – unemployed political graduates wanting the experience – went to America and were ‘door knocking’ for Obama – much to the surprise of the voters! (“Hey your English accents are so awesome!”). They instilled much energy into his campaign.

    There are many friends of Hungary – and many ex-pats – who would come to Hungary’s aid.

    I know internet use is not so advanced in Hungary – but it will deliver much more bang for your buck if it is harnessed as fully as possible – and it can bypass Orban’s stranglehold. ‘Viral’ electoral adverts will be a bonus.

    And with the help of all those overseas friends…….(I’ll be very happy to lend a hand! – well as much as a non-Hungarian-speaking Englishman can! )…..

    All is not lost entirely!

    Regards

    Charlie

  14. If I did not know better……the PM is getting too big for his britches, I fear for the people of Hungary if these kind of political actions continue to spiral out of control.

  15. What about Bajnai and Wallis or Hajdú-Bét Rt which crippled many poultry breeders? Was that a good management of him? No. Don’t forget he was the prime minister in 2009 and 2010, and prior to that, since 2006 he was the member of the Gyurcsány government as Government Commissioner in Development Policy and as Minister of Local Government.
    So you can see that they destroyed Hungary together with Gyurcsány and he is accountable for that and he has never come clean. Hungary does not need an economic hit-man and a puppet of foreign circles like Bajnai. Együtt is not even registered and they make demands for LMP, what a mockery! Együtt is consisted of former Szdsz and Mszp aids during the 8 years of socialist government who are trying to reinvent themselves in power. We don’t need Együtt, they should go to HELL!

  16. I know I am in the minority here, but I predict that Bajnai’s meteoric rise is a ballon that is going to pop in the next few months.

    As Eva correctly points out, Bajnai is “not really a politician.” He lacks the leadership skills that would make him a viable prime minister. So far, I see no reason to believe that Bajnai will be able to organize people – “marshal the troops,” so to speak. His responses to the attacks against him have been limp-wristed, and I find it hard to imagine Bajnai standing up to the machinations of Fidesz’s propaganda machine in the future.

    While Bajnai proved to be adept at macroeconomic “damage management” during his one year as prime minister, he did nothing to redress the popular cynicism toward democratic governance — a cynicism that had been fueled by his predecessor and sponsor, Ferenc Gyurcsany.

    I passionately object to 95% of what Fidesz does and practically 100% of what it says. But when the Orbanites condemn Bajnai in relation to his fawning support for Gyurcsany’s incompetent and corrupt government of 2006-2009, I find myself agreeing. Bajnai was no minor player in Gyurcsany’s inner circle: He was minister of municipalities and regional development from 2007 to 2008, then minister of economy from 2008 to 2009. If he is a potential leader, can he please explain why he did not lift a finger to halt Gyurcsany’s hamfisted “reform” policies? (I use quotes because the “reforms” were directed at a mess that Gyurcsany himself had created with plenty of help from his friend Peter Medgyessy.)

    To me, Bajnai would be more credible if he had called on Gyurscany to resign following the Balatonoszod speech and the ensuing riots. No matter what Gyurcsany’s intentions, his premiership had become untenable. Had he resigned, there might have been new elections in 2007. The MSZP would probably have lost, but Fidesz would not have won a 2/3 majority, and the SZDSZ and MDF might still be with us today. Instead, Gyurcsany clung on to power at all costs, In so doing, he laid the groundwork for the events of 2010 that have plunged Hungary into a bottomless cesspool of Orbanism.

    Without the LMP, Egyutt 2014 is going to be a warmed-over version of the 2007 government: Bajnai, the Democratic Coalition and the MSZP, who are exactly the same clowns that ran the 2006-2010 government, without exception. The only difference is, Bajnai is more acceptable as a prime minister than Gyurcsany to most Hungarians (myself included).

    So, you ask, if Bajnai can’t lead the country, who can? Ladies and gentlemen, I give you… Lajos Bokros.

  17. Though I’m an optimist at heart I don’t have much hope for the next years in Hungary. Fidesz will win the next elections and Hungary will slide deeper into you know what I mean.

    Maybe then the people who are still here will wake up when they see their country becoming the EU’s slum. So in 2018 there might be a reaction – or earlier if some people in Fidesz realise what Orbán, Matolcsy etc have been doing …

  18. Ms KKA :

    Am I correct in assuming that a “civic group” is much the same as a PAC here? Is Edgyutt 2014 not still a civic group? What, apart from funding, of course, would prevent them from running a rebuttal campaign?

    Not quite because these civic groups are phony. It is government money that is filtered through them.

  19. Erik, the Reader returned. For Pete’s sake look around. The economy is in ruins, corruption is rampant, Hungary’s name is blacked all over the world and your guys at the moment are working on stealing the elections and you talk about Hajdu-Bet and the geese. Bajnai’s firm that was involved didn’t do anything illegal. They simply could save the firm. Bajnai won several lawsuits against those who accused him of wrongdoing.

    As for Gyurcsány, he managed to decrease the deficit considerably between 2006 and 2008 and introduced reforms most of which Fidesz torpedoed. What you are parroting is sheer crap. Sorry, but it is.

  20. Pibroch. You are not just in minority but you are wrong. With stuff like that you are doing your darnedest to keep Orbán and his criminal gang in power. You are the worst kind of “liberal.” Sorry that I have to say that. I understand Erik the Red more than I understand you, You are one of those who make sure that Fidesz wins the next elections.

  21. Charlie is right.

    We cannot give up, and the internet is the only means the opposition has left – and it can be an effective one (and one I suspect Orbán and his mates won’t be able to use as effectively).

    But, unfortunately, he is also right when he says the “internet use is not so advanced in Hungary”. Whilst physically it is as easy to get connected as (say) in the UK, the fact is that most of the population don’t use it, or use it in a much more restricted/specific way than we are used to. The ‘social media’ effect that we are getting so used to in the West doesn’t really happen in Hungary.

    Realistically, it won’t make any significant difference to the outcome of the 2014 election, Orbán has that sewn up, but it could be the beginning of a grassroots movement against Orbán, which could eventually grow into something that ultimately does overthrow him.

    It will be interesting to see how well the opposition does use the internet – and how Orbán responds. Unfortunately, anyone who thinks he cannot – and will not – control the internet is is living in cloud-turul-land. All internet access depends on ISPs, and they are commercial organisations like any other, and just as susceptible to Orbán’s machinations.

  22. Dear Eva –

    “Wrong” implies that I have said something factually incorrect. Your response did not point out anything I said that does not meet the standard of factuality.

    Naturally, the opinions I expressed are my own. But please be advised that disagreeing with someone does necessarily not make the other person “wrong.”

    I am a liberal who does not think that Bajnai is the best choice for prime minister. I do not want to see a regurgitation of the 2007-2010 government, and trust you me, I am not alone in that view.

    With 1.5 years to go until the next election (if Fidesz actually decides to hold the ballot on schedule), NOW is the time to debate who should be leading opposition to Fidesz, or whether the opposition can be united under a single banner, or whether an opposition union is even a good idea.

    In the coming six months or so, the answers to the above questions will become clear. Then, you can bet that I will support whatever entity has the best chance of defeating Orban. Until then, I will ensure that my views are represented in the debate. That’s one of the key tenets of pluralism and should not be discouraged.

    Your (sorry to say, disrespectful) response borrows heavily from Orban’s way of thinking – “Anyone who does not agree with me is automatically a traitor to the cause.” Please understand that the opposition to Orban is a “big tent” and includes a multitude of views.

    You say that my views will ensure that Orban and his criminal gang get reelected. I must disagree. Shutting out well-considered dissent will turn people off to the democratic process. This, in turn, feeds the cynicism that plays directly into Orban’s hands.

  23. Pibroch, well said!

    And to everyone else, is replacing one criminal gang with another the only choice Hungary has? If so, perhaps everyone should emigrate.

  24. As for Gyurcsán and Bajnai – it’s not what we think that matters, it’s what the majority of Hungarians ‘know’ that is crucial. And pibroch details that very accurately.

    The Orbán propaganda worked fantastically well, so much so that even someone like pibroch, although deeply anti-Fidesz/Orbán, still doesn’t trust Gyurchán or Bajnai.

    And we have to ask ourselves why that propaganda was so overwhelmingly successful. The answer is twofold: firstly it reinforced what many people already thought – he was basically preaching to the partly converted – and, secondly, it is based on a large element of truth.

    The Medgyessy/Gyurcsan government WAS a disaster for Hungary, and Bajnai only looks good if you selectively look at what he did in the last year, not at his part in creating the mess.

    Without the incompetence, corruption and mismanagement of the MSzP government, we wouldn’t have the problem we’ve got today – they created the environment that produced the Viktator. It would be crazy to suggest that the answer to Orbán is to go back to that – and the people know that.

  25. Ho hum – while I’m painstakingly constructing my arguments, Kingfisher pops up and says the same thing in just two lines!

  26. My “Pibroch, well said” comment related to his earlier post but also applies to the second one!

    Gyurcsány’s huge mistake was not resigning after the Öszödi Beszéd. Had he done so, I can just about imagine that he would be regarded differently now, as being a man with some integrity. But having been caught admitting he had grossly and dishonestly run the country, he seemed to expect some sort of positive reception from the electorate when he decided to plough on and clear up his own mess. I don’t think any electorate in the world would accept that from any politician and the fact he hung on to power is the reason we now have the current ghastly regime. Orbán is Gyurcsány’s fault, to quite a significant degree.

  27. Eva S. Balogh :
    Erik, the Reader returned. For Pete’s sake look around. The economy is in ruins, corruption is rampant, Hungary’s name is blacked all over the world and your guys at the moment are working on stealing the elections and you talk about Hajdu-Bet and the geese. Bajnai’s firm that was involved didn’t do anything illegal. They simply could save the firm. Bajnai won several lawsuits against those who accused him of wrongdoing.
    As for Gyurcsány, he managed to decrease the deficit considerably between 2006 and 2008 and introduced reforms most of which Fidesz torpedoed. What you are parroting is sheer crap. Sorry, but it is.

    Morality and legality do not coincide. Maybe he won lawsuits against some news outlets, but the bottom question is have they paid compensation for those bankrupts? The suppliers have not been paid that’s the bottom line and that cannot be whitewashed!!!
    He cannot scratch down the Libás Bajnai nickname (Goosey Bajnai) , also the taxi drivers of the former Est Taxi are not happy when his name is mentioned. Yea: let’s make thing legally and let’s make people suffer and pay! That is the Bajnai way.
    For the record Fidesz saved Hungary from bankruptcy in which the socialist led the country!

  28. Eva S. Balogh :
    Pibroch. You are not just in minority but you are wrong. With stuff like that you are doing your darnedest to keep Orbán and his criminal gang in power. You are the worst kind of “liberal.” Sorry that I have to say that. I understand Erik the Red more than I understand you, You are one of those who make sure that Fidesz wins the next elections.

    I’m sorry, Éva , it’s your blog and therefore you have the right to say whatever you think, but this reaction to Pibroch’s comment is not helpful. Pibroch is EXACTLY the sort of liberal we need within the opposition – someone who understands the evil of Orbán and Fidesz and passionately wants to replace them, but who also understand the reality of Hungary.

    You are right, attitudes like this won’t help to win the next election, but then nothing is going to help win the next election, short of a revolution. But attitudes like Pibrch’s are absolutely essential for the ultimate victory over Orbán. Shut out people like him and the opposition is just as blinkered as Fidesz.

  29. Kingfisher :
    My “Pibroch, well said” comment related to his earlier post but also applies to the second one!
    Gyurcsány’s huge mistake was not resigning after the Öszödi Beszéd. Had he done so, I can just about imagine that he would be regarded differently now, as being a man with some integrity. But having been caught admitting he had grossly and dishonestly run the country, he seemed to expect some sort of positive reception from the electorate when he decided to plough on and clear up his own mess. I don’t think any electorate in the world would accept that from any politician and the fact he hung on to power is the reason we now have the current ghastly regime. Orbán is Gyurcsány’s fault, to quite a significant degree.

    Which is why Gyurcsany is not the answer. He may be a nice chap, he may be whiter than white, he may even have been a half-decent PM, had the situation been different. But he is not a politician – he proved that he simply does not understand how politics works – or how people think.

  30. Even tough I don’t know too much (I never cared too much until Fidesz came to power and started that awful reactionary program …) about Hungarian politics and politicians I have one question:

    What is the reason that there seem to be no “good” (i e honest, truthful, intelligent, qualified etc …) politicians in Hungary at all ?

    Everybody that is named is “tainted” or stupid/crazy or dishonest – in it only for the money …

    What about the young people ? I know that they are on the internet – the young ones in my wife’s family get their info mainly from sites like reddit, nor from Hungarian tv or newspapers. So they know what’s going on in the world at large, not only Hungary – but they have no time and see no future/chance in politics.

  31. Every party needs idealogues, baby-kissers, foot-soldiers and enforcers, because politics involves team-work. Just because Bajnai hasn’t built a team with all these in place doesn’t mean he can’t. And if more than half of voters gave a mandate to Orbán, despite the sleaze and incompetence of his first term, who’s to say they won’t give Bajnai, and even Gyurcsany, the benefit of the doubt over returning to power in a wiser state?

  32. Pibroch. OK, I should have said “in my opinion you’re wrong.” I’m also entitled to my opinion and someone can be wrong even if he doesn’t state wrong facts. (I might add that one also wonders about the accuracy of your assessment of the previous “eight years.”

    That Kingfisher agrees with you is no surprise. People with attitudes like yours will effectively help these criminals to stay in power.

  33. Paul, please tell me where you are going to find the “right” person who can defeat Orbán. Schiffer? Péter Juhász? Please understand that only parties can get together in order to defeat the present government and parties are led by politicians. You cannot go out somewhere on the street and find new ones who are pure as the driven snow.

    What Kingfisher and Pibroch suggest is destructive and it is more destructive because it comes from the so-called democratic side. Anyone who suggest what they suggest is not a democrat. Sorry.

  34. Kingfisher :
    My “Pibroch, well said” comment related to his earlier post but also applies to the second one!
    Gyurcsány’s huge mistake was not resigning after the Öszödi Beszéd. Had he done so, I can just about imagine that he would be regarded differently now, as being a man with some integrity. But having been caught admitting he had grossly and dishonestly run the country, he seemed to expect some sort of positive reception from the electorate when he decided to plough on and clear up his own mess. I don’t think any electorate in the world would accept that from any politician and the fact he hung on to power is the reason we now have the current ghastly regime. Orbán is Gyurcsány’s fault, to quite a significant degree.

    poo poo Let’s not drag out the Oszod speech over and over and over. It is tiresome.He was honest. He told what every government of Hungary did unit that moment, and he swore to change that. Now, when did Orban said that “do not listen what I say but what I do, and when I win I will change that behaviour”? Oh, he did not. He just remained true to the first part, “Do not listen what I say!” He, with his under-qualified (phoney diplomas, no experience) troopers, who are in for the money are ruining the country’s reputation, bankrupting the country, steeling the land, work by total illegal means, but “Hey, he is just the same.” BUt we still dragging on to the speech of Oszod, like dragging on to Trianon, and St Stephan. WHat a BS.
    I wan to see the money in Bajnai’s advertisements. I want to hear that they were turned away (for obvious political reasons). THis would go against human rights (discrimination), and every and each company could be sued for that. We have poeple, like Baby Erik the REader here, who is either working for the Fidesz PR or as i Said a baby, who still buys into the Fidesz propaganda. So, what will attack that? Our English mumbling on this blog? Right. Put money in advertising. I am syaing this over and over, because I am hoping that someone, somewhere in Hungary who has something to do wit the opposition will read this, and wake up. We do know that Fidesz’ workers are reading this, but where is the opposition?

  35. May I call attention to a video I just saw. It is a DK meeting with Tamás Bauer as keynote speaker. It is about 20 minutes. He talks about to possible strategies for the coming elections and after. It worth read listening to it and the reaction of the audience.

  36. Dear Eva,
    Very respectfully, are you seriously saying that anyone who…

    1) Does not want a restoration of the 2007-2010 MSZP government
    2) Does not think Bajnai is the best choice to lead a united opposition
    3) Thinks Gyurcsany should have resigned in 2006
    4) Questions the viability of a united opposition against Fidesz
    5) Asks whether a united opposition is technically the best strategy for defeating Fidesz (a valid question, given that Fidesz is sure to be changing the election rules until the very minute before the vote takes place)

    …is not a democrat?

    “Egy a tábor, egy a zászló” is not my idea of democracy, and I am surprised that a woman of your considerable intelligence should embrace this concept.

    Perhaps you also think US political parties should not have primaries, where candidates and their supporters debate issues of substance? Should the US ban party conventions, where the different factions within a party formally choose a single candidate and unite behind him? Since you know your history, was it wrong for Abraham Lincoln to challenge William Seward for the Republican nomination in 1860, because everyone knew that Seward was the only hope of defeating the Democrats?

    Naturally, if it comes to picking the best of two bad options, I’ll join the “tábor” that most closely represents my views.

    If it’s Bajnai vs. Orbán, I vote for Bajnai. If it’s Orbán vs. Vona, I vote for Orbán (then, I go home and take a shower because I feel so disgusted.)

    As I mentioned before, we are still 1.5 years away from the ballot. At this stage, my choice is not restricted to two options, one slightly more palatable than the other.

    There are several people whom I think would be a better PM than Bajnai. If Lajos Bokros decides to run for the premiership, I will support him.

  37. Since when did I say that I want a restoration of the MSZP-SZDSZ government? Never. But, let me add, that it would still a great deal better than what we have now. I like Bokros but he has no chance. The best chance lies with Bajnai. This is that simple. Otherwise, you can dream on.

  38. Erik the Reader :

    Morality and legality do not coincide.

    Cute remark, Erik. The reason we want the Orban government out is that they are trying to make morality and law “coincide” by creating their own “adjusted” laws and twisting moral values they way they fit. Thank you, but I don’t want your morality.

    Erik, wake up and smell capitalism. The investors at Wallis invested 50 million US into the dying poultry industry to give a chance to the locals to survive. The company was successful for a while then the poultry market tanked and the they went bankrupt. If Bajnai would have gone to the board to ask for 10 million more to pay the suppliers of a bankrupt company the board would have sent him to a drug test straight out of the room. Wallis and other investors are the very reason why Hungary is not in gutter yet. It’s truly sad if the poor farmers didn’t get paid but we have a freaking country to save – so move on. They should move to the other side of the country and do something that pays better.

    Kingfisher, yes, your children and grand children WILL leave the country if you don’t become pragmatic. It’s up to you. I’m sure they will proudly tell stories to their children in New Zealand about the integrity of their Rumanian ancestor (wait, wasn’t it Hungarian or something?) who didn’t want any governments he didn’t like 110%. You don’t have to like Bajnai – just work with him.

  39. Eva S. Balogh :
    Since when did I say that I want a restoration of the MSZP-SZDSZ government? Never. But, let me add, that it would still a great deal better than what we have now. I like Bokros but he has no chance. The best change lie with Bajnai. This is that simple. Otherwise, you can dream on.

    Dear Eva –

    You didn’t say that you want a restoration of the MSZP-SZDSZ government. However, at present, Egyutt 2014 looks very much like the MSZP-SZDSZ government in its 2007 incarnation, except Bajnai has moved from the cabinet to the premiership. If Gabor Kuncze joins forces with Bajnai, as is rumored in the media, the similarity will be even more striking.

    If I were a betting man, I too, would say that Bokros has no chance. I said the same thing about Bill Clinton in May 1992, when he was polling at 18% behind George HW Bush and Ross Perot. I said the same thing about Barack Obama when he announced his candidacy in 2007. I said the same thing about Jesse Ventura in the 1998 governor’s race in Minnesota. Had I been alive at the time, I would have said the same thing about Harry Truman in 1948.

    Admittedly, the comparison here is not perfect: Clinton and Obama were basically unknown entities when they ran, while Bokros is well known and vilified by a wide swathe of the Hungarian population. On top of that, it’s doubtful that he will run.

    What I’m saying is, political history is rife with examples of “no chancers” winning big. I’d say it’s too early to write anybody off just yet — even Bokros.

  40. @Pibrich: You’d be only right if Hungary would be a working democracy, but with the Fidesz rigging the election system; it is no longer the case. The united opposition is needed to RESTORE democracy.

    For those of you who think MSzP and Fidesz is the same, I have news for you. As long as MSzp is pro-democracy and means it, they are different. Only in a democracy it is possible to do something about corruption. It may be a slow process , but here it is how it works. In a democracy an openly corrupt party looses the next elections, other parties can use the incumbents’ corruption to their advantage, in fact, it is their best interest to uncover such corruption and use it against the incumbent party. Also, civic groups with strong anti-corruption agenda only have a chance to affect any change in a democracy. Not to mention the role of the free press in all this.

    Take away or limit these democratic freedoms, and corruption is impossible to curb. If MSZP gets back in the power, but restores the democratic functioning of the country, then we are one step ahead. LMP should keep pushing its anti-corruption agenda under such circumstances… change in the general inclination towards corruption won’t come one day to another, but in time, with persistence, it is possible to push the general political moral to healthier levels…. in a democracy. Incompetence and corruption can be dealt with in an a democratic system on the long run, but not in an autocratic one.

  41. Pibroch. Sorry, I find your strategy a dead end. It serves only one thing: the continuation of the present regime. And, let me repeat exceedingly harmful for the restoration of democracy in Hungary

  42. Some1 :

    An :
    MS KKA: Other than money, running such a campaign needs places where Egyutt 2014 can advertise. Public media is government controlled, private tv and press is intimidated to run ads attacking the government (fearing a backlash from the government). The billboards are owned by the company of Simicska, a Fidesz-crony… so advertising space for the opposition is already seriously limited. It will only get worse with the new electoral law, which will further limit political advertising. Practically, in the election campaign, political parties will only be able to advertise on public tv (run by the government) and billboards (Fidesz-controlled). Political advertising, for example, on commercial TVs, will not be allowed.

    An, as I asked above, “Where is the money?” I yet to read a single article that the advertising campaign was not executed because there were not able to rent advertising spaces. Until I read a single factual article about opposition parties advertising being tuned away, anything you wrote is a theory.
    Maybe it will happen, but for goodness sake, who holds Bajnai back to try it?

    This isn’t a question of money, it’s a question of opportunity. If the government seals up all sources of opportunity then you can have all the money in the world. One might add, well how about using websites external to the country? Well, if the government can secretly exclude or censor websites coming into the country (as they are proposing to do), they can block based on the violation of the electoral laws…. the ability to rebuke is quite limited…

  43. @An, I see your points.

    Still, I have some questions:

    1) If we are sure that Fidesz is going rig the next election, then why should any opposition figures bother running against Fidesz in the first place?

    2) A united opposition makes sense under the proposed election laws that Fidesz has not passed yet. However, they have already made serious changes to the proposal:
    – First, they wanted to triple the number of nominations slips that a candidate needed to get on the ballot (meaning only Fidesz and MSZP candidates would be able to compete, because they are the only parties that have national organizations strong enough to collect this number of slips).
    – They then relented, saying that double the number of nomination slips would suffice.
    – Then, when they saw that Bajnai’s people might be competitive, Fidesz decided to do away with the nomination slips entirely. This allows anyone to compete in the election, dividing the anti-Fidesz vote among potentially dozens of candidates in a single district.

    The election law will be a moving target up until election day (if such a day ever comes). If the opposition eventually does unite behind a single candidate, who knows what Fidesz’s next move will be? Perhaps Rogan & friends will draw up an entirely new system that would make it more advantageous for multiple opposition parties to run.

    3) The MSZP is preferable to Fidesz, but the Socialists can give back as good as they get in terms of corruption. If the MSZP were serious about fighting corruption, they would have taken measures against it from 2002 to 2010. They not only tolerated corrupt governance, but encouraged it.

    If Fidesz is indeed defeated in 2014, it would be counterproductive for former MSZPers to launch a new “atvilagitas” program against anyone except the biggest offenders (Simicska, Nyerges etc). The idea of Fidesz and the MSZP investigating each other for corruption is a political comedy. It is the very epitome of the pot calling the kettle black.

    If there is a new prime minister in 2014, he should take Lincoln’s attitude — “charity toward all, malice toward none” — and move on. Otherwise, the country will get mired in tit-for-tat investigations that will waste time and energy.

    I personally foresee a much darker future for 2014:

    Scenario 1: Fidesz plays every dirty trick in the book and rigs the election. Protesters launch civil disobedience, which Fidesz crushes with a force that makes 2006 look like a tea party. The EU, the OSCE and NATO suspend ties with the Orban government.

    Scenario 2: Fidesz loses, but then plants a bunch of poison pills into the Basic Law that will make it impossible for their successors to govern. (In a sense, they have already done this.) Hungary faces a major constitutional crisis and the Civil Osszefogas launches never-ending street protests.

    Scenario 3: Constant legal bickering over the legitimacy of votes, irregularities in the votes from Slovakia, Serbia and Romania, etc. Orban reasserts power despite the legal wrangling. Everybody shrugs and says “ez van.”

    My point is, it may be impossible to defeat illiberal forces through liberal means (i.e. an election). I hope the election will be a true test of democracy, and I plan to participate in the anti-Fidesz movement. But I fear that a true election is going to be a pipe dream.

  44. LwiiH :

    This isn’t a question of money, it’s a question of opportunity. If the government seals up all sources of opportunity then you can have all the money in the world.

    Well, there are still plenty of things that can be done. One is stepping the protests. The other is distributing flyers. I can fill a large trash bag with flyers I received during the recent election campaign here in the US. Even my freakin congressman stopped by to shake my hand and gave me a flyer.

    And there are also the illegal ones … paint over their signs. Put out your signs – doesn’t matter if they deem it illegal. Erik was absolutely right: moraIity has nothing to do with laws. I think in Szombathely, Santa’s little helpers covered these primitive Gyurcsany-Bajnai signs with their own.

  45. Pibroch :
    but I fear that a true election is going to be a pipe dream.

    Pibroch’s pipe dreams .. good one.

    What about the #4 possibility. The Egyutt 2014 and it’s supporters wins more that 2/3 in the Parliament. It didn’t even cross your mind …

  46. Mutt :

    Pibroch :
    but I fear that a true election is going to be a pipe dream.

    Pibroch’s pipe dreams .. good one.

    What about the #4 possibility. The Egyutt 2014 and it’s supporters wins more that 2/3 in the Parliament. It didn’t even cross your mind …

    This is too simple for these people. Bauer on the video I provided tries to convince DK supporters that even if András Schiffer or László Puch is on the ballot they have to vote for him. Everybody screams: “Oh,my God, no, no,” but by the end I think that got the message. Bauer at the end of his talk says: yes, there is only one possibility a joint list headed by, let’s say, Bajnai, followed by Mesterhazy and one that even has Gyurcsány name on it. Otherwise, it cannot be done.

    The other day I heard Károly Herényi on ATV. I always liked the man as I liked the Ibolya Dávid’s led MDF period. He had a few harsh things to say about those who on trifle personal dislikes refuse to cooperate. If that is the case you people deserve to be under Orbán’s regime for ever and ever.

  47. Eva S. Balogh :
    Pibroch. You are not just in minority but you are wrong. With stuff like that you are doing your darnedest to keep Orbán and his criminal gang in power. You are the worst kind of “liberal.” Sorry that I have to say that. I understand Erik the Red more than I understand you, You are one of those who make sure that Fidesz wins the next elections.

    Being in a minority doesn’t make him wrong, it just makes him in a minority. I can’t say that I completely disagree with this analysis w.r.t. to corruption and Gyurcsany’s response to the infamous speech.. Seriously, what leader in *any* western country would survive something like that caught on tape… and his insistance to hold on and no apparent internal resistance.

    +1 for Wolfi, excuse the unintentional pun but a wolf in sheep’s clothing. To recycle this crew goes back to what I’ve said months ago, the country needs a clean sweep.

    As for the current situation, the damage ‘s been done. This country has been struggling with the power vacum that came with the withdrawal of the Soviets for 20 odd years and this is just another episode in that struggle. Only this time the ruling party has taken measures to ensure that what they’ve taken can’t easily be undone. Recovery from this, if it can every happen, will take years!

  48. London Calling!

    Pibroch I suggest you read back on Eva’s blog.

    Many of the points you raise have been posited on here and are well rehearsed.
    However it’s handy to have them in the same place.

    You are wrong to say you are in the minority about Bajnai’s balloon bursting – read the blog.

    Many of us think it’s a little early to be deciding on the 2014 cabinet,

    …………except for one thing.

    From the book of the bleedin’ obvious – if anything is going to succeed then the opposition MUST be 100% united.

    Forget the squabbling – and come together and organise.

    Anything less – and all is lost.

    Regards

    Charlie

  49. Wolfi, this is because it is in the very definition of “politician”. All politicians are “crooks”, “corrupt” etc., the definition of “politics” already seems to include also that all people involved and the whole business are invariably and only “dirty”. (As I said a number of times, it needs to redefine some concepts to be better equipped for democracy.)

  50. Paul :
    Charlie is right.
    We cannot give up, and the internet is the only means the opposition has left – and it can be an effective one (and one I suspect Orbán and his mates won’t be able to use as effectively).
    It will be interesting to see how well the opposition does use the internet – and how Orbán responds. Unfortunately, anyone who thinks he cannot – and will not – control the internet is is living in cloud-turul-land. All internet access depends on ISPs, and they are commercial organisations like any other, and just as susceptible to Orbán’s machinations.

    I’m going to disagree with the premise that internet usage isn’t so advanced in Hungary. Social media has exploded in Hungary. Facebook is used very widely and the amount of online commerce isn’t insignificant. As for access, I work from home with very little problems. If I compare internet access here to what I’ve witnessed in many other European, Asian, the US and Canada I would say I’m very satisfied with levels of service. Some of the web designers in Hungary are among the best in the world. So, maybe use of the internet may not be as advanced here as in other western countries but I would argue that the difference is marginal enough that use of the internet should not be ignored. It’s certainly not being ignored by OV as he’s cut off it’s use with-in the country and they are now looking to be able to (secretly) block traffic from sites outside of the country….

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